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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:52 am 
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Jman22 wrote:
Moppi wrote:
I tolerate Apatzec's decision so that I can see his greedy smug-arse be SLAYED by Saint Queen Elenda. :V

I want to believe, but something tells me that by the time we return to Ixalan, Miralda & Vona will have rubbed out Elenda and declared an Age of Everflowing Blood where vampires no longer fast nor drink only from the condemned but wantonly consume everything with a pulse.


This would make me unreasonably angry.

I mean, think about it... if Elenda and Apatzec both mostly get their way going into the next major conflict, what's the result? White european-analogs that have shaped up and are attempting to better live to ideals being attacked by imperialistic brown people. You can't tell that story. Maybe you could have gotten away with it in the 90s, when matters in the real world at least felt a little less touchy, but in a decade where Wizards of the Coast feels they need to hire a Diversity Consultant for Kaya and treated her like a huge deal (When, as was forgotten in the same manner that Hollywood seems to forget that Blade happened when discussing Black Panther, Teferi is one of Magic's longest running heroic characters) and was probably right that they would have been navigating a minefield without that, do you really think that pitting the Sun Empire, on the offense, against a Torrezon ruled by vampires rendered as anything other than irredeemably evil is going to fly? There would be torches and pitchforks in Renton, at least metaphorically speaking.

Since they're pretty clearly doubling down on Apatzec being a jerk but haven't made him out to be stupid enough to get the Sun Empire's ass handed to it offscreen leading into a Legion of Dusk Excessive Punative Campaign for Ixalan 2, this means Elenda has to fail to reform the Legion.

I don't like this conclusion, but taking into account the world the stories are created in and not just the ones they present, it seems fairly inevitable. Creative isn't blind or stupid, they're not going to make a move based on internal logic that gets them real world approval ratings on par with our current president.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Empyreal wrote:
The empire has never really struck me as a strong naval force.

nezahal is a nice boat

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Moppi wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
My first reaction when the Emperor announced he was going to invade Torrezon was "I'm sorry, WUT?" Honestly, you haven't even conquered your own continent and have both the remaining River Heralds and the pirates you're still ostensibly at war with sitting near your home base. So you want to take the fight to a foreign empire when you were struggling to expel them from your own soil? Also, don't these twits rely on dinosaurs native to their continent to fight? What if there are none left on Torrezon? How do you plan to ship buckets of raptors over the sea? Won't the pirates be like "LOL THEY'RE ON OUR TURF NOW!" and raid and harass the ships? The empire has never really struck me as a strong naval force. It just seemed like such a stupid and pointless decision.

I tolerate Apatzec's decision so that I can see his greedy smug-arse be SLAYED by Saint Queen Elenda. :V
I hope so much that this is true!
Empyreal wrote:
That Huatli just stumbled on Saheeli was super irritating too. Ghirapur is a big city and they just both happen to be at the same location?

Huatli was there because she asked a shopkeeper to point her to the most exciting thing to see. If that exhibition really was a major event then it makes sense for them both to be there.
You're right, my mistake. I still just feel like, in such a large city, that them just crossing paths like that is so convenient.
Jman22 wrote:
I want to believe, but something tells me that by the time we return to Ixalan, Miralda & Vona will have rubbed out Elenda and declared an Age of Everflowing Blood where vampires no longer fast nor drink only from the condemned but wantonly consume everything with a pulse.


This would make me unreasonably angry.

I mean, think about it... if Elenda and Apatzec both mostly get their way going into the next major conflict, what's the result? White european-analogs that have shaped up and are attempting to better live to ideals being attacked by imperialistic brown people. You can't tell that story. Maybe you could have gotten away with it in the 90s, when matters in the real world at least felt a little less touchy, but in a decade where Wizards of the Coast feels they need to hire a Diversity Consultant for Kaya and treated her like a huge deal (When, as was forgotten in the same manner that Hollywood seems to forget that Blade happened when discussing Black Panther, Teferi is one of Magic's longest running heroic characters) and was probably right that they would have been navigating a minefield without that, do you really think that pitting the Sun Empire, on the offense, against a Torrezon ruled by vampires rendered as anything other than irredeemably evil is going to fly? There would be torches and pitchforks in Renton, at least metaphorically speaking.

Since they're pretty clearly doubling down on Apatzec being a jerk but haven't made him out to be stupid enough to get the Sun Empire's ass handed to it offscreen leading into a Legion of Dusk Excessive Punative Campaign for Ixalan 2, this means Elenda has to fail to reform the Legion.

I don't like this conclusion, but taking into account the world the stories are created in and not just the ones they present, it seems fairly inevitable. Creative isn't blind or stupid, they're not going to make a move based on internal logic that gets them real world approval ratings on par with our current president.
We might get away with a vampire civil war with Elenda leading a small faction of reformed vampires and the rest of the Legion looking extra evil. Then we could perhaps get the Empire to team up with Elenda help liberate people enslaved by the other vampires. Maybe?
Mown wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
The empire has never really struck me as a strong naval force.

nezahal is a nice boat
I wonder how strong their ability to control the primal dinosaurs will be. Seriously, are they going to just command them like the chump raptors we have now? I feel like they're going to require something more.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:36 am 
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We're done for a while on regular story, but they posted up the remaining alternate endings today.

Today's UR (Magic Story): Rivals of Ixalan Magic Story Alternate Endings

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Well this certainly validates my vote for pirates. That would've been way better than the Sun Empire canon. We could've been looking forward to a "Malcom and Breeches, Co-Emperors" card on the next visit!

I feel like the vampire ending was poor form. Imagine if vampires had gotten the most votes, and the result was that "screw you, vampire fans" ending. Makes the whole vote feel misleading.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Well this certainly validates my vote for pirates. That would've been way better than the Sun Empire canon. We could've been looking forward to a "Malcom and Breeches, Co-Emperors" card on the next visit!

I feel like the vampire ending was poor form. Imagine if vampires had gotten the most votes, and the result was that "screw you, vampire fans" ending. Makes the whole vote feel misleading.
*jumps straight to the vampire ending*

Pathetic, Pavor thought to himself.
Urgh. So, basically if a majority had voted for vampires taking the city, it wouldn't have ended with vampires taking the city anyway. Besides, a dinosaur didn't manage to kill Vona when Huatli actually ordered it to, but it's totally fine as a "rocks fall, everybody dies" kind of ending when it's convenient. Not that I care, though. My final rant about the RIX stories got eaten by the forum transition, but the bottom line is, I didn't enjoy them anyway*, probably even less than Battle for Zendikar. It could have been cool if Jace, Vraska and Azor hadn't been in it and they had focused on the actual conflict of the setting instead, but none of the things I was there for actually mattered. They took a refreshing new plane with promising characters and pissed it all away in the second half. And then they followed it up with the worst possible transition to Dominaria.


*except for the brilliant Jace/Liliana flashback and the general direction they took with Elenda's character

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Poor Vona, never seems to catch a break.

So basically the vampire ending is a random middle finger. Good to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Yeah, that Vampire ending sucked for no good reason. Loved my co-Emperors Malcom and Breeches though.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Yeah, the vampire ending was weird since the city is still up for grabs, would have preferred if instead vona and some conquerors claimed the city only to trigger some weird failsafe that destroyed the city and killed them. Thus making it unusable, or that after the dinosaur encounter she became some sort of mindless revenant haunting the place and making it unusable for all the factions.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Their treatment of the vampires is equally hilarious and disgusting. Hosting an event and potentially telling the winners "go **** yourself" seems like such an unprofessional move. The only reason I'd like to see Vona die is because she's a terrible character, but I don't want to see it happen in an equally terrible story of "lol schrödinger's dinosaur eats her."

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Mown wrote:
Their treatment of the vampires is equally hilarious and disgusting. Hosting an event and potentially telling the winners "go **** yourself" seems like such an unprofessional move. The only reason I'd like to see Vona die is because she's a terrible character, but I don't want to see it happen in an equally terrible story of "lol schrödinger's dinosaur eats her."

Yeah, it would have been more fitting if Fein did some ninja action and rubbed her out at the same point, possibly acting on order from Elenda having recognized how dangerous and irredeemably off the path Vona is. Well, it would have more relevance to the Legion of Dusk than Karmasaurus Rex, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:39 pm 
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It always seemed odd that the Merfolk would want to move in as well. I get it's a site of power but wouldn't it be kind of dry for them? I'm almost certain that the vampires would've gotten a different ending if they actually won. There's no way they would have run that story to snub the winners like that.

Honestly, I would've hated the pirates winning. I always hated the idea of the pirates in Orazca because they're just going to trash the place. A little part of me feels ridiculous, but it would've been a "so much art, history, and potential is now lost" moment for me. They strip the city down for gold and jewels and then what? Orazca is a tattered memory that's filled with drunks. I would figure that the empire would at least try to preserve the grandeur of the city instead of just stripping it for gold.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:52 am 
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The Merfolk plan to flood it into "Golden Waters".

Honestly, neither conquistadores nor pirates were good to native cultures, so we can expect the vampires to lose either way, but the pirates are clearly shown to be in the right, and that disgusts me like the dragon racial supremacy disgusted me in Tarkir.

Just because a race « or profession is a Mary Sue, it doesn't render oppression, thievery or genocide acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Honestly, neither conquistadores nor pirates were good to native cultures, so we can expect the vampires to lose either way, but the pirates are clearly shown to be in the right, and that disgusts me like the dragon racial supremacy disgusted me in Tarkir.
So much this. I feel like the pirates were presented really as pretty inoffensive, particularly since they were the team that the protagonists were a part of. At the end of the day, though, they're still pirates. They still plunder and attack empire and merfolk settlements. They're still raiders and murderers but we're never really exposed to that. I think Jace and Vraska only actually fought a vampire ship on screen. Would we still be like "awww pirates!" if we read about them raiding a peaceful fishing village?


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:58 am 
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Weren't pirates just a bunch of refugees from coastal cities that failed negotiation with the ixalan's tribes in this setting?


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Yes. At least, that's how they started. They've had a couple of centuries since that.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Yes, they're refugees from formal liberal coastal cities devastated by the Legion's theocracy that have been forced into piracy because the Sun Empire hates everyone. But that doesn't justify their penchant for killing people for their belongings.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:50 am 
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2centuries of piracy? Wow, wondering why I was sure it was 40-60 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:21 pm 
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The timeline there is somewhat squishy, but the Immortal Sun was removed from Torrezon 800 years ago, Elenda returned as the first Vampire 300 years later, then there's a period of conquest and unification. The refugees who formed the Brazen Coalition left during the last century of that period, probably spread out over several decades. It's unclear (to me, at least) exactly how long Torrezon has been united, but the Coalition will have been around for that many years plus 50-60 years, approximately.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:18 am 
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I hate the vampires, but that ending?

Absolute
Unacceptable

J A N K


I haven't been active in a while but I noticed my recent bias against the vampires on these forums and I want to apologize for my ignorant behavior. I do remember small points that the vampires didn't address but I wanted to watch for this storyline. Needless to say, I didn't get that stuff.

One important thing is they could have been forging alliances with some subfactions in the Empire and the Heralds, similarly to how the Spanish excused their brutal behavior in most of central/south america at that time. Really upset that they didn't even try to touch that territory as it would have given some interesting plot lines, commitments, and internal enemies for the Sun Empire and River Heralds to be fighting against. The fact that the Sun Empire doesn't have internal enemies besides Huatli is embarrassingly inaccurate and flattens some of the storytelling that could have come out of Ixalan.

For example, wouldn't it be interesting to see Huatli act militant about her country with the idea that she has a rival trying to best her for title of Warrior-Poet? Or her defecting to a subfaction in the Sun Empire that is seeking to make peace with the River Heralds? Or the emperor fearing dissension in the ranks, trying to make bargains with other factions to secure continued power?

What if the River Heralds were on track towards getting a more active role in Ixalan before Kumena screwed things up for them? Or the pirate factions being bribed left and right by the three other factions to hit the others or, more likely, themselves?

A story of betrayal between the four factions would have been at least interesting to build upon, but sadly that's not a part of the story we were told.


Last edited by preadatordetector on Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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