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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Y'know, I was flipping through stuff at the card shop today and ran across a super obscure character I'd like to see pop up.
Chiss-Goria
I had completely forgotten about that nugget, and now I really want to know what was up with that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:29 am 
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Judging by his blurb, is Arahbo basically the Ur-Cat? It seems so...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:20 am 
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Judging by his blurb, is Arahbo basically the Ur-Cat? It seems so...

And Edgar is the original Innistrad vampire... I guess that leaves Inalla as the odd one out in NOT being the progenitor of her tribe despite being an Eminence legend.

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Last edited by Tevish Szat on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:29 am 
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Judging by his blurb, is Arahbo basically the Ur-Cat? It seems so...

And Edgar is the original Innistrad vampire... I guess that leaves Inalla as the odd one out in NOT being the progenitor of her tribe despite being an Eminence legend.

Yes, but Edgar seems to be limited to be the sire of the vampires of only one plane (two, if you count Zendikar). While Ur-Dragon and Arahbo are explicitly stated to embody the "essence" of dragons and felines of the entire Multiverse.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:53 am 
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I like the dragon deck. O-Kagachi and Wasitora are from my absolute favorite pieces of MtG storyline. That manabase is an eyesore though.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:08 am 
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So, funny story.....the guy from the curse cycle is actually a planeswalker? I had just assumed that all of that mini-story had taken place on Innistrad.

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In Commander (2017 Edition), one memorable cycle tells the story of the unluckiest Planeswalker in the Multiverse as he finds himself in unfortunate situations on plane after plane after plane. Take a closer look at his follies in bigger-than-card scale, along with the art descriptions that guided his misfortune.

Curse of Vitality
Spoiler

Setting: Innistrad
Color: white spell
Location: a gothic-inspired tower
Action: This is a take on the classic Frankenstein moment when an angry mob marches up to the mad scientist's laboratory. For this shot, we are in the tower looking down through a window, over the shoulder of the unluckiest Planeswalker, at a mob of people with torches and weapons. For costuming, see pp. 64–68 in the Shadows over Innistrad world guide. In a few moments, the mob will be here for the unluckiest Planeswalker.
Focus: the marching mob
Mood: there's no escaping this.

Curse of Verbosity
Spoiler

Setting: Fiora
Color: blue spell
Location: interior of a tavern
Action: The intent of this shot is to show someone talking louder than they should, drawing the attention of some unsavory people. Show the unluckiest Planeswalker well-lit in an otherwise relatively dim tavern. He has an innocent, naive look, and he is speaking enthusiastically to another patron, unaware that he probably shouldn't be speaking in public about the things he's talking about. Meanwhile, other patrons with ill-intent lean in to listen. For costuming, see p. 30–32 in the Conspiracy: Take the Crown world guide. Some patrons even cup their ear to hear better. Perhaps the camera is among the people leaning in, and we see the unluckiest Planeswalker at the next table.
Focus: the attention the speaker is getting without knowing it
Mood: a lamb in a lion's den

Curse of Disturbance
Spoiler

Setting: Grixis
Color: black spell
Location: a wide boulevard in the ruins of a once-great medieval city
Action: Show the unlucky Planeswalker running flat out away from a horde of Zombies. Aside from the fleeing man and the Zombies, the street is otherwise deserted.
Focus: the man fleeing from Zombies
Mood: Why do they always follow me?

Curse of Opulence
Spoiler

Setting: Ravnica
Color: red spell
Location: a crowded plaza
Action: Show the unluckiest Planeswalker in the middle of a crowded plaza. A stream of gold coins shoots from his pockets to rain down all around him. He's startled by what's happening, but the people all around him scramble to grab as much gold as they can.
Focus: the gold pouring out of the man's pockets
Mood: a magical curse

Curse of Bounty
Spoiler

Setting: Tarkir
Color: green spell
Location: forested highlands at night
Action: Show the unluckiest Planeswalker having made camp, and sitting by a meager fire that has some meat cooking on it. He's about to bite into a piece of meat in his hands, but he's suddenly aware that the scent of food has attracted a bunch of beasts. We see the beasts at the edge of the firelight.
Focus: the beasts closing in on the lone traveler
Mood: this is the unluckiest man alive, and he knows it.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:47 am 
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Thats pretty awesome. I hope they print him as a super cheap 2 or 3 mana walker with abilities that hurt you or himself or maybe hes in an un set with dice rolling.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Come take a look at the C17 Design file and see what could have been... There are a few legendaries that got cut for whatever reason.

Cat Deck:
-Darlo Manx, The Inscrutable
-Jedit Ojanen, Leader
-Rapalzi, the Jagged Blade

Dragon Deck:
-Haze, the Maelstrom Dragon

Vampire Deck:
-Morkel, Essence Cultivator
-Van Sengirsing, Bounty Hunter

Wizard Deck:
-Runo Stromkirk, Reverent of Depths
-Tenpkoshe, Lichmaker

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:07 pm 
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At least some of those got changed during development to become another card. Van Sengirsing became Mathas, Fiend Seeker.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:46 am 
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Okay, this isn't flavour related at all, but I have to get it out of the system.

I opened my vampire deck yesterday (I'll probably pick up my cat deck from a friend on Saturday), and it turns out the foil effect on the commanders is just as bad or probably even worse than with C16. The ink on my foils from C16 is already fading noticeably, and they were kinda pale and low contrast to begin with. The C17 ones don't look any better, whatever new foil effect they used for C16 and C17 just doesn't go well with the printing. Both the C16 and C17 foils look kinda bland, like they've been printed on aluminium or something. The new ones didn't even come out of the box in mint condition, or at least they have thin white stripes at the bottom which look like the colour's been rubbed off. My copy of Breya came out of the box with a little dent right in her face last year too, I really don't know what they do with those cards at the printing facility. The new tokens also look and feel really glossy and were clearly printed on different paper than the rest of the deck.

If the commander foils keep looking this cheap and underwhelming, I'd strongly prefer it if they just didn't make them foil anymore. The foil planeswalkers from the most recent Duel Deck that I bought (Nissa vs Ob Nixilis) are still looking great and shiny and clearly used a much better foiling process. And considering the problems that recent regular sets have had with their printing and paper quality and their foiling, the Commander decks are just the tip of the iceberg. I bought a crap ton of SOI packs for instance, and the number of cards that came out with printing issues or curled like hell is just unacceptable. The foil effect in regular expansion sets also got a lot worse around Khans of Tarkir, though I guess it has sightly improved again since. It still doesn't hold a candle to the older foil cards, though.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:20 am 
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Token cards are always printed on different paper stock than regular cards. They use cheaper paper because nobody cares if you try to counterfeit a token.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:51 am 
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I mean, I wouldn't even have mentioned the tokens if it wasn't for the terrible look of the foils. They're just tokens after all. But the foils look really bad, and if C16 is any indication, they're going to look even worse over time even when they're sleeved.

As to tokens always being printed on different paper, I'm not sure. The tokens from C14 I have at hand right now seem to be different fom the rest of the deck too on closer inspection, but not as obviously as the C17 ones. But then I compared them to the double-faced Demon/Angel token from AVR, and that one looks and feels exactly like a regular Magic card to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am 
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Eh, maybe things are different for foil tokens then? Either way, I'm still not sure why Wizards would use different foiling processes on their cards for different product lines. They have a good quality foil process that works in their main line products. Why mess with that, unless supplemental product lines are sort of an "experimentation" ground for them to test out different foiling options and they don't mind of they are worse because of the smaller circulation.....

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:06 am 
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The c17 foil job has, at least for the first print run, dodgy quality. I've heard of and seen some terrible dark or splotchy foils, but I personally got lucky: my Mairsil is great, and the foiling was well-designed to make the ruby ring 'pop'. I'm not trying to diminish your suffering, just to point out that I think the problem isn't necessarily the process, but rather it's in quality control

There were also reports of lots of c17 having missing/damaged rare-or-mythic holostickers.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am 
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AzureShade wrote:
Eh, maybe things are different for foil tokens then? Either way, I'm still not sure why Wizards would use different foiling processes on their cards for different product lines. They have a good quality foil process that works in their main line products. Why mess with that, unless supplemental product lines are sort of an "experimentation" ground for them to test out different foiling options and they don't mind of they are worse because of the smaller circulation.....

The tokens in the Commander decks aren't foil, though, just the new commanders. The tokens are double-faced, but so is the one from AVR that I mentioned, and that one feels like a normal non-foil card. I'm not sure why they'd use different foil processes for different products either, it's a complete mystery to me. But they do. The C16 and C17 foil commanders definitely look like failed experiments compared to regular foils. When you look at the bigger picture, they're probably trying to save money at the expense of quality. Hence all the card curling and bad printing in recent sets. The SOI cards really feel different, and quite a few of them are curled, miscut, printed blurrily or have rough edges. And when you compare a foil card from Khans to an older one, you'll see and feel the difference.

The c17 foil job has, at least for the first print run, dodgy quality. I've heard of and seen some terrible dark or splotchy foils, but I personally got lucky: my Mairsil is great, and the foiling was well-designed to make the ruby ring 'pop'. I'm not trying to diminish your suffering, just to point out that I think the problem isn't necessarily the process, but rather it's in quality control

There were also reports of lots of c17 having missing/damaged rare-or-mythic holostickers.
My playgroup pre-ordered two rounds of the decks, so those would definitely be from the first print run. I've also heard people online and in youtube videos say some of the commander deck cards came out of the pack curled, which luckily hasn't been the case with mine so far. The whole quality thing seems to be pretty volatile... Really, I think the only reason they didn't stick to the paper and foil quality they had a few years ago was cutting costs, be it in the manufacturing process, the material or in quality control. Something's just seriously wrong with card quality these days, albeit in slightly different ways for regular expansion and preconstructed decks.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:03 pm 
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I think it's likely that they use one of their "off" factories for supplemental products, probably garnering lower quality as a result.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:05 pm 
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If you're running into problems with a defective product, I encourage you to contact our Customer Service department. I can't make promises for them, but they generally replace products in situations like you describe, and hearing about these problems will help us to track them down and fix them. http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2305/


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:07 pm 
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That's nice, and I've actually thought about contacting them, but I'm not entirely sure if there are Commander foils that look significantly better or if they just used a really bland and experimental foil process for all of them. They'll probably have cards in stock that at least look less dark and have clearer lines and a more evenly printed border than some of mine, but I don't know how much better the general quality of the second print run is. I'll talk to my play playgroup about it and wait until I meet the guy who still has my cat deck in order to get the bigger picture. I guess I'll decide what to do when I've seen the foils from the other decks.

But thanks for your response either way!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:01 pm 
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I have never had issues with CMDR foils fwiw

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Since I mentioned the quality issues with the Commander foils in the first place and Ethan brought up contacting customer service, I might as well update you on how that story turned out (spoilers: there's a happy ending).

As you might remember, I was unhappy with the look of the foils in my C17 vampire deck, and I said I'll wait until I see the cat deck until I do something. It took way longer for my cat deck to be handed over to me than I expected, but when I opened it, I found that the printing quality itself was perfectly fine, but that about a dozen of the cards were damaged to various degrees, ranging from slight nicks and scratches to "holy crap, somebody must have stabbed this card". So, long story short, I wrote an e-mail to customer service and nicely asked for replacements (of both the damaged cat cards and the foil vampires), followed their instructions, sent them pictures of the damages and got flawless replacements after a couple of weeks.

So, on the one hand I'm kinda shocked that there were issues with both decks and that cards that obviously got stuck in a machine just get shipped like that, but on the other hand I'll file it under "surprisingly positive experience with WotC". Well, they basically force you to create an account, and their e-mail service is a bit of a mess, but ultimately they get stuff done. :thumbsup:

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