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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Oh Mown, where do I start?

How about winning? My desire to eliminate Rome to win is still me pursuing a win. The difference being that, as you said, you don't care who "you win with" whereas I do. No matter how you look at it, we are both pursuing secondary objectives.

You, by virtue of allying with Rome, want to lynch non-Romans. I sought to lynch Romans specifically. Either path leads to a Persian victory. Granted the alliance of Rome/Persia had a higher majority. Course we were able to topple them anyway. Either way we were not threatened until you became a target.

Now this is where it gets interesting. More to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:05 pm 
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But that meant he would vote me. I've been playing with KoD to get the Romans and vote him. So we get a me vs Neo in the lynch, which is also kinda Carthage vs Rome. Just in flavor alone it would've been fun.

Now we have to wait an extra day though >_>

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:11 pm 
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How about winning? My desire to eliminate Rome to win is still me pursuing a win. The difference being that, as you said, you don't care who "you win with" whereas I do. No matter how you look at it, we are both pursuing secondary objectives.

My objectives: Win the game.
Your objectives: Win the game, make Rome lose.

Q.E.D.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Let's take your proof and look it over.

Quote:
My objectives: Win the game.
Your objectives: Win the game, make Rome lose.

Q.E.D.


First, let's start with facts. How do you win the game? By being one of two factions remaining. That is, players of other factions must be killed in order to eliminate the faction.

Now, since the condition for winning has been established, we can look the various ways to win as Persia.

Let S = { x | x is the set of all ways Persia can win}.

x >= 3 at the very least since Persia can win with Rome, or Greece, or Carthage and we can include Numbers as part of the victories. But I'm discounting Numbers as part of this for ease of showing what I am showing.

Now, I'm going to break x into subsets. That is, let A = Carthage, B = Rome, and C = Greece. Note, also, that there is no intersection between A, B, or C in set S since Persia can only win with one faction or the other.

With all this established, I'll refer to your proof.

@"Your" Objectives: Win the game. In order to win the game, you need to pick A, B, or C. Picking one excludes the others as you can't have A and B as an example. To that end, regardless of which subset you pick, you have to win the game by making others lose. That is, you have to make denying subsets B and C from being an option.

@"My" Objective: Win the game, make Rome lose. In this case, I am choosing B' (not B). This means that I am closing off subset B from being an option while still having A or C available to me to pick from.

Thus, no matter how you look at it each of our choices brings with it, what I will call, "subobjectives" that accomplish the overall objective. That is, to win.

Therefore, there is overall difference between my path and your path aside from numerical differences.

Q.E.D.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:32 pm 
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Ok, now that I got that out of my system, time for the continuation of what I was talking about.

I wove a lot of webs from the beginning of the game Mown. Numbers and Squinty were the first ones. After that I was informed of the alliance you participated in with Rome. I informed Numbers of practically everything since the beginning. I told him of my desire to see Rome burn since Squinty had befriended me by trusting me with almost everything about his role. I even talked with Jim and got his approval for the go ahead to lynch Rag.

I said this once before to someone. I can't accurately predict how people will act, but there are some behaviors I can guess at with enough interaction. In your case, I banked fully on you not actively hurting our team no matter what. I may not have been able to count on your vote for the most part, but I didn't have to worry about you killing me. Jim proved loyal since the start of Rome's fall so I counted on his support. Of the Greeks I could relly on Squinty for sure because I kept my promise to him to help avoid his lynch. I feel I earned his loyalty after that. Hello, on the other hand, was more of a thorn in my side since he was actively not very trusting. I had hoped Squinty would keep him in line, but when Rome murdered Squinty, Hello became more of a unpredictable beast for me. At least, until Rome kept targeting him which ended up ensuring he'd react against Rome.

Funny enough, I wasn't sure about Numbers though. He was helpful in overthrowing Rag (and at the time I had no idea about his ability), but I wasn't so sure he'd stick with Rome's downfall when he told me he wanted Niklor lynched and didn't particularly care about seeing other Romans lynched (that is why I ended up switching to Niklor). I wanted to avoid upsetting Numbers so I went with what he wanted. I also took precautions to make sure he wouldn't help Niklor out of his situation by using Pseudonym and impersonating Niklor's persona (as best I could based on what Numbers told me of their interaction) to make Numbers despise Niklor. For the most part, it seemed to have work as neither Numbers knew I was Pseudonym nor did Niklor ever bring it up (I suspect I beat Niklor to the punch in conversing with Numbers so Numbers may have been distrusting of Niklor despite any effort on Niklor's part to obtain help from him, but I don't know that for sure since I'm not sure about the sequence of events between the three of us). All that mattered was Numbers didn't seem to keen on helping who he thought Pseudonym was.

I also suspect that due to my interactions with Numbers, that is why you became a target Mown. Jim hadn't done anything to earn Number's attention as far as I am aware. Plus you have "technically" been a thorn in my side. Perhaps Numbers was both doing me a favor and making the game interesting by getting rid of you and putting the game into a state where Rome and Persia were equal in power and Numbers oversaw the turnout of the game as he saw fit. Maybe. All I know is Numbers didn't go after me because of my interaction with him (although perhaps it was your interactions/partnership with Niklor that earned you Number's attention too). Either way.

Given that Neo had been absent for two days prior to the deadline (anyone could have looked at his profile to see this), all I can deduce is that Numbers banked on his ability to get you lynched since you would stubbornly not vote with me as you did previously. That is, Jim, Scar, and I would be trumped by Fel, Hello, and Numbers due to Numbers ability. Neo wasn't even a factor by all rights (and as would have been reality had Numbers been one minute faster). Hell, only reason the game turned out that way near the end of Day 4 was probably due to Numbers sticking true to what he told me -- his desire for an interesting game experience which totally would have been realized. Only reason Hello voted you rather than me was because, and this is a thought that I believe to be accurate, is because Numbers informed Hello of my view that he was expendable. How else do you account for Hello voting with us against the very people that tried to kill him only to side with those same people to kill someone who hadn't publicly mentioned any ire towards him? Anyway...

The current state of the game we have, that favors us, is the sum of deception and luck.

And I intend to keep up my goal of winning by eliminating Rome and then eliminating Hello. For all intents and purposes, I fully intend on a victory for Persia with Carthage.


As a major side note:

Some of the things you said are a bit contradictory Mown. Such as -- well, let me get your words to accurately portray it.

Quote:
me? couldn't you at least have gone against KoD? I would still not be opposed to going with Rome, instead of mr. tunnel vision


Quote:
Had I been stubborn, I wouldn't have been voting against Rome.


Quote:
Niklor's proposal for "hindering your agenda" involved lynching you, you know? It shouldn't be so strange that I wouldn't go ahead with it.


Quote:
I couldn't care less which players are alive when the game ends, unlike you.


For the record, remember when I said I banked on you not going against us? By that I meant I fully hoped you wouldn't vote me and get me lynched since I was on your team. I was fully aware of Niklor's desire to live however it was accomplished. That being said though, these quotes are silly in that they contradict your actions in the game.

Take the first one for instance. If you'd really prefer they go after me, why didn't you just work with Niklor in the first place? Because you're on my team you say? Refer to the fourth quote then. Why would you care if I'm alive or not at the end so long as you win? You obviously have no love for me so it isn't a stretch to imagine that you would try to remove me if given the opportunity (but I imagine your contradictory nature, as indicated by the third quote, is what stalled you from acting thus causing Niklor to call you silly).

Look at the second now. You are stubborn because you literally voted when it didn't matter anymore. Niklor had "hammered" himself before you even decided to vote (and that a good many hours after no less). Look at yesterday. You didn't even bother to place a vote at all until it was well past the point of no return. At the very least had you placed a vote some time before deadline (three days is a lot of time to place a vote -- even near deadline when the mod's post says 72 hours for day) it may had led to me being lynched instead of you (assuming Fel would react in time since Hello and Numbers did their votes close to deadline).

Incidentally, why even want to win with Rome now? You tell me you don't care who is alive at the end, but give contradiction upon contradiction. It's baffling.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:41 pm 
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@Scar:

Accuracy of my proof pl0x?


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:06 pm 
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So you were just trying to state that we're both playing the game? You got me there, I can't disagree with that.

My point is that you are deliberately limiting your options, which in turns means you're playing sub-optimally (and if I may be so frank, ruining the game experience. sidenote: this is why numbers's role is rather stupid.)
I also suspect that due to my interactions with Numbers, that is why you became a target Mown. Jim hadn't done anything to earn Number's attention as far as I am aware. Plus you have "technically" been a thorn in my side. Perhaps Numbers was both doing me a favor and making the game interesting by getting rid of you and putting the game into a state where Rome and Persia were equal in power and Numbers oversaw the turnout of the game as he saw fit. Maybe. All I know is Numbers didn't go after me because of my interaction with him (although perhaps it was your interactions/partnership with Niklor that earned you Number's attention too). Either way.

You know the whole "Mown is so wishy-washy" talk Niklor had? That was him and Numbers trying to lynch you.
Given that Neo had been absent for two days prior to the deadline (anyone could have looked at his profile to see this), all I can deduce is that Numbers banked on his ability to get you lynched since you would stubbornly not vote with me as you did previously.

Refusing to vote and waiting to vote are two entirely different things, and I'd appreciate if you didn't misconstrue my actions.
I don't know why Neo being absent matters. Him not having logged on does in no way imply that he wouldn't come online on the last night, I would rather say it hints at the opposite.
That is, Jim, Scar, and I would be trumped by Fel, Hello, and Numbers due to Numbers ability. Neo wasn't even a factor by all rights (and as would have been reality had Numbers been one minute faster). Hell, only reason the game turned out that way near the end of Day 4 was probably due to Numbers sticking true to what he told me -- his desire for an interesting game experience which totally would have been realized. Only reason Hello voted you rather than me was because, and this is a thought that I believe to be accurate, is because Numbers informed Hello of my view that he was expendable. How else do you account for Hello voting with us against the very people that tried to kill him only to side with those same people to kill someone who hadn't publicly mentioned any ire towards him?

It might just be late, but I've read this four times and I have no idea what you're trying to say.
And I intend to keep up my goal of winning by eliminating Rome and then eliminating Hello. For all intents and purposes, I fully intend on a victory for Persia with Carthage.

Lynch HW then.
Some of the things you said are a bit contradictory Mown. Such as -- well, let me get your words to accurately portray it.

Sure, weave me that narrative honey.
Take the first one for instance. If you'd really prefer they go after me, why didn't you just work with Niklor in the first place? Because you're on my team you say? Refer to the fourth quote then. Why would you care if I'm alive or not at the end so long as you win? You obviously have no love for me so it isn't a stretch to imagine that you would try to remove me if given the opportunity (but I imagine your contradictory nature, as indicated by the third quote, is what stalled you from acting thus causing Niklor to call you silly).

I never stated a preference that they should choose you, I questioned their behavior as to why they wouldn't, since you vehemently oppose them, while I am neutral.
I don't care who else is alive when the game has ended. The game has not yet ended, so I care about keeping you alive, since your interests align with mine in that you both want an alliance with Persia to win. I didn't go through with trying to lynch you, never had any intention of doing so, and never would have, because my sole interest in the game is to win, and that would run contrary to my goal.
Look at the second now. You are stubborn because you literally voted when it didn't matter anymore. Niklor had "hammered" himself before you even decided to vote (and that a good many hours after no less). Look at yesterday. You didn't even bother to place a vote at all until it was well past the point of no return. At the very least had you placed a vote some time before deadline (three days is a lot of time to place a vote -- even near deadline when the mod's post says 72 hours for day) it may had led to me being lynched instead of you (assuming Fel would react in time since Hello and Numbers did their votes close to deadline).

The game doesn't end the moment a majority is reached, so the only incentive to vote before it ends is to pretend that I'm going to vote for someone. I can express my interests verbally just fine, and if I know that I'll be available before day end, I simply don't see the point.
Incidentally, why even want to win with Rome now? You tell me you don't care who is alive at the end, but give contradiction upon contradiction. It's baffling.

Sure thing honey.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm 
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I'm basically no longer playing to win due to reasons.

The thing that bummers me the most was that cato gave me his ok to use criptografy to communicate with zinger, so if I didn't have to report him for messaging me during the night I would have had a list of up to five player that supposedly shared an alignment with me and him.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:39 pm 
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That was also why I was so quiet day 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:53 pm 
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More like proving that you have, as you once used the term before, "secondary" objectives like I do. I don't blame you for trying to simplify things for your side of the argument though.

Also, your point is a tad off. To be accurate, I had more options available to me than you did as you were the one "limiting" yourself to playing with the goal of winning with a specific faction; however, given all the information gathered so early in the game, I cannot dispute that the chance of winning with Rome was absolutely higher than any other path. Course, that being said, I never argued that in any way. Only that I sought Rome's destruction. That is, an alternate path to winning rather than choosing one you chose.

Course, to be extremely technical, your path wasn't as absolute since everyone wasn't needed for that majority (7/12 players) was more like 5/12. And, given the fact that I rallied others against you guys, you end up with -- what? 5/12 on my side against you and Rome? Factor in Numbers jumping in and that spells doom for Rome + the lonely Persian.

Quote:
You know the whole "Mown is so wishy-washy" talk Niklor had? That was him and Numbers trying to lynch you.


I can only wonder how much Pseudonym factored into the interaction between Numbers and Niklor. For the sake of completeness, did you talk with Numbers at all or did you hear everything secondhand via Niklor?

Quote:
Refusing to vote and waiting to vote are two entirely different things, and I'd appreciate if you didn't misconstrue my actions.
I don't know why Neo being absent matters. Him not having logged on does in no way imply that he wouldn't come online on the last night, I would rather say it hints at the opposite.


I wouldn't say I'm misconstruing your actions. I mean you are the one that has stated a desire to see me lynched just so you don't have to work with me (even though you haven't kinda).

As for why Neo being absent matters -- he was gone for two days straight and hadn't logged on so the chances of him logging on at that exact moment were slim. Like real slim. Could he have? Sure. I'm not arguing that. I'm mostly arguing that the chances of him doing so were low AND that, via hindsight, he hadn't as we know which begs the question why not just commit yourself to a vote on someone so that something like what occurred doesn't happen? That was the main point there.

Let me try to sum up what I was saying that you didn't get.

Basically, yesterday would have been different had Numbers's vote came one minute earlier (Numbers has an ability that forces a lynch, in the event of a tie, on the person he is voting). Very early on in the game, Numbers told me he simply wanted an interesting experience in this game. I believe he was sticking true to that in pursuing a lynch on you to put us in a game state where the Romans and Persians were equal in numbers (and him reigning over how the outcome of the came was determined). Part of why I believe he went after you is because of my interaction with me (after all, it would have been far easier to have lynched me but they went after you because Numbers wanted you lynched. Not me.). Only reason Hello was with them instead of us is because Numbers more than likely told Hello about how I viewed him (HW) as being expendable.

If you still don't get it, then don't worry about it. Just player interaction from my perspective is all it is (TL;DR).

Quote:
Lynch HW then.


No, because I die then once I pursue Neo tomorrow (and that is assuming you don't try to get Neo a victory by trying to lynch Scar).

Quote:
I never stated a preference that they should choose you, I questioned their behavior as to why they wouldn't, since you vehemently oppose them, while I am neutral.
I don't care who else is alive when the game has ended. The game has not yet ended, so I care about keeping you alive, since your interests align with mine in that you both want an alliance with Persia to win. I didn't go through with trying to lynch you, never had any intention of doing so, and never would have, because my sole interest in the game is to win, and that would run contrary to my goal.


Uh huh. Well, I already explained why they chose you over me. Player interaction.

Hello was with us until Numbers told him what I had said. Hello ***would*** have gone after me for sure, but didn't because, and this is me speculating but given how my interactions with Numbers went I'm sure it is accurate, Numbers didn't want me lynched. It's similar to Day 3 when I first tried to lynch Fel. I had originally intended to leave Niklor alive as the last Roman so Numbers could taunt him; however, Numbers directly expressed no desire to see other Romans lynched. He was purely interested in Niklor's death. Which I find funny thinking back on it because it makes sense that Niklor would try to convince you to lynch me. I assume he even contacted Numbers too. But if my ploy with Pseudonym worked as intended, then I can understand why Niklor was lynched and commented about Numbers being on a high horse.

Also, I find it odd that you'd use essentially the same words I told you when you questioned me about why I was doing this originally. Not that I mind.

Quote:
The game doesn't end the moment a majority is reached, so the only incentive to vote before it ends is to pretend that I'm going to vote for someone. I can express my interests verbally just fine, and if I know that I'll be available before day end, I simply don't see the point.


Indeed, this is something I can't argue against because I understand where you are coming from perfectly with this. You certainly gave a lot of impressions that made me honestly question whether or not I could count on your help. Not to mention you gave Niklor false home too I would imagine.

Quote:
Sure thing honey.


Thanks sugar.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:53 am 
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Quote:
No, because I die then once I pursue Neo tomorrow (and that is assuming you don't try to get Neo a victory by trying to lynch Scar).

It took me a while, but now I get it.

Mown, you know KoD's role right?
It kinda depends on timestamp here. I'm going to assume KoD contacted Cato about when his copy ability kicks in. So if the copy ability takes place immediatly after lynch, he would have Neo's role when the game ended and die because Persian/me game end.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:17 am 
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More like proving that you have, as you once used the term before, "secondary" objectives like I do. I don't blame you for trying to simplify things for your side of the argument though.

Actually, reading over it again, I don't know what point you were trying to make. I have one objective, which comes with "subobjectives", as you so stated it (and no secondary objectives). You have two objectives, one of which is a player defined objective, and since I'm apparently in charge of definitions, that's a secondary objective (as everyone's primary objective should be to win the game, which is an objective provided by the game.)
Also, your point is a tad off. To be accurate, I had more options available to me than you did as you were the one "limiting" yourself to playing with the goal of winning with a specific faction; however, given all the information gathered so early in the game, I cannot dispute that the chance of winning with Rome was absolutely higher than any other path. Course, that being said, I never argued that in any way. Only that I sought Rome's destruction. That is, an alternate path to winning rather than choosing one you chose.

I had 3 factions to choose from, you had 2. 3 > 2. Indicating a preference for one over the other does not make me lose those options, although they might be more difficult to pursue as a consequence.
Course, to be extremely technical, your path wasn't as absolute since everyone wasn't needed for that majority (7/12 players) was more like 5/12. And, given the fact that I rallied others against you guys, you end up with -- what? 5/12 on my side against you and Rome? Factor in Numbers jumping in and that spells doom for Rome + the lonely Persian.

Yes, it didn't work out, because someone was making plays based on discrimination.
I can only wonder how much Pseudonym factored into the interaction between Numbers and Niklor. For the sake of completeness, did you talk with Numbers at all or did you hear everything secondhand via Niklor?

I don't know why Rag's other account would factor into this, but Niklor wasn't lying to me. It doesn't really matter to me whether Numbers lied directly to me or through Niklor, and since Niklor would have no hope of lynching anyone if Numbers just rejected his proposal, I don't see a reason as to why Numbers would lie about it either.
I wouldn't say I'm misconstruing your actions. I mean you are the one that has stated a desire to see me lynched just so you don't have to work with me (even though you haven't kinda).

So have I or have I not, and why does that factor into me accidentally missing the deadline?
Anyway, I don't see whether or not it matters that I want to see you lynched, because I'm not acting upon it.
As for why Neo being absent matters -- he was gone for two days straight and hadn't logged on so the chances of him logging on at that exact moment were slim. Like real slim. Could he have? Sure. I'm not arguing that. I'm mostly arguing that the chances of him doing so were low AND that, via hindsight, he hadn't as we know which begs the question why not just commit yourself to a vote on someone so that something like what occurred doesn't happen? That was the main point there.

What if he instead of logging on just in time, I don't know, logged on within the 4-hour period after Felbatista voted for me? And since I brought it up, no, that is hardly the main point. The main point is that I would have died guaranteed if NeoSilk had logged on after fel voted, regardless of whether I had voted or not.
No, because I die then once I pursue Neo tomorrow (and that is assuming you don't try to get Neo a victory by trying to lynch Scar).

I appreciate your continued unwillingness to tell me what your ability is, but someone else has thankfully told me.
So basically, kill Scarlet instead tomorrow and win.
Uh huh. Well, I already explained why they chose you over me. Player interaction.

That doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself, which is what you accused me of.
Hello was with us until Numbers told him what I had said. Hello ***would*** have gone after me for sure, but didn't because, and this is me speculating but given how my interactions with Numbers went I'm sure it is accurate, Numbers didn't want me lynched. It's similar to Day 3 when I first tried to lynch Fel. I had originally intended to leave Niklor alive as the last Roman so Numbers could taunt him; however, Numbers directly expressed no desire to see other Romans lynched. He was purely interested in Niklor's death. Which I find funny thinking back on it because it makes sense that Niklor would try to convince you to lynch me. I assume he even contacted Numbers too. But if my ploy with Pseudonym worked as intended, then I can understand why Niklor was lynched and commented about Numbers being on a high horse.

It's kind of endearing to read you and Niklor acting like you're puppet masters.
Also, I find it odd that you'd use essentially the same words I told you when you questioned me about why I was doing this originally. Not that I mind.

I'm doing it neither "because the majority is doing it" or for arbitrary personal reasons, so I can hardly see how that is the case.
Indeed, this is something I can't argue against because I understand where you are coming from perfectly with this. You certainly gave a lot of impressions that made me honestly question whether or not I could count on your help. Not to mention you gave Niklor false home too I would imagine.

Okay, let me present the votes I would have done the last two days then, until before the deadline.
Vote: Hello World
Vote: Hello World
Does that clear things up?

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:20 am 
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And since I'm not stating my intentions well enough, let's be perfectly clear today as well.
Vote: Hello World

If you're going to continue making decisions based on "I don't want to", then I'm just going to stop caring about what you say. We can talk about player ethics if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:06 pm 
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The point was in the proof itself Mown. Speaking of the proof, you're not seeing the fallacy of what it is you are saying. My proof clearly addressed it and you are ignoring it (which is fine). It just shows me you can't reason properly. Let me show you:

Quote:
Actually, reading over it again, I don't know what point you were trying to make. I have one objective, which comes with "subobjectives", as you so stated it (and no secondary objectives). You have two objectives, one of which is a player defined objective, and since I'm apparently in charge of definitions, that's a secondary objective (as everyone's primary objective should be to win the game, which is an objective provided by the game.)


Concering you:

Referring back to my proof, you choose subset B of the overall set S. That is, in order to win the game you chose to win with Rome. This is fact. Because you chose B, you cannot (for the sake of argument) choose A or C. That is, you must eliminate Carthage and Greece. This is something you showed to be true despite being unable to accomplish it. Looking at it, it becomes apparent that you limited yourself to one faction (allied yourself with one) and by virtue of this had to eliminate the others in order to win. Thus, your subobjectives became watch Greece and Carthage burn.

Concerning me:

Referring back to my proof, I chose B'. That is, I chose not Rome. For the sake of argument you can also view this as me choosing C (Greece) since I allied myself with him first. Now, because I chose not Rome (B') that means I want to watch Rome burn; however, you can also look at that as me choosing to win with Greece. Thus, my subobjectives become watch Rome and Carthage burn.

Sidenote: Since I'm doing this for completeness you should note that choosing one of the subsets is not set in stone. That is, you could alter your choice throughout the game which would then alter your subobjectives. For me, that happened when Squinty was killed.


Also to be accurate Mown I also had 3 options. Just like you did. And like you I allied myself with someone. So your attempt to explain this in a way that isn't realistic isn't effective. If you'd just read over and understand the proof you'd see your mistake. But if you don't, that is fine. Anyway, speaking in absolutes is why the persian/rome alliance was the strongest. Realistically, it was short 2 persians and was struck down as has been seen. Speaking of this, this looking back in hindsight is a main reason for some of my perspectives Mown. That's why I said it would have been best for you to vote earlier etc etc. But, at this point, you and I will just have to disagree.

As for Rag's other account playing a role, it's because I was Rag's other account. You thought it odd that they went after you instead of me. If what you said is fully true in the absolute form, then I don't see why Numbers would have gone after you. By all rights he would have gone after me especially after I talked to and acted like a high and mighty jerk to him (imitating Niklor). I mean it is possible Numbers reaaaaaaally wanted you dead for some reason. Maybe. I don't know. All I know is I spoke to Numbers as myself and as Psuedonym. I shared a lot of information with him as myself, and I imitated Niklor to try and get Numbers to despise Niklor. If Numbers knew it was me on Pseudonym, then I do find it odd (like you) that he went after you rather than me.

I can only guess at why Numbers didn't kill me. Come to think of it, if Numbers and Niklor wanted --

Numbers, Niklor, Neo, Fel vs Hello, Jim, myself, Scar, (you at the very late stage since you did throw a vote out) although Numbers never did vote anyway. Yeah, I can see why you would be a thorn in the side of that plan. Course that doesn't explain Niklor's comment about Numbers and the high horse he sat upon.

Oh well.

Anyway, as far as the current state of the game, I want Scar to win with us. Which means Neo dies now, Hello tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:32 am 
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Sorry all. I ended up having to work 6 days in a row with less the 2 hours sleep per night, so I'm still in recovery mode.

I'll have to remember to lie more next time, that was my big mistake. However, since you all know all about me, I'm somewhat surprised to be on the chopping block. No ability, almost no chance to win (unless you all start wiseing up and vote for scar).

I'm pretty much a non-factor in this game right now.

Should have more tomorrow, assuming I'm alive. For now, it's sleep time.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:09 pm 
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NeoSilk wrote:
unless you all start wiseing up and vote for scar

Why not vote for him yourself then, before going to bed?

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:13 pm 
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edit: I guess the round ends on Monday, and not today. I'm not good at this keeping track of time thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:28 pm 
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Mown wrote:
NeoSilk wrote:
unless you all start wiseing up and vote for scar

Why not vote for him yourself then, before going to bed?


Good point...
Vote: Scar

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:55 am 
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Neo, we're at the endgame. Right now, it's just Mown butting heads with me about lynching Hello/Scar over you (frankly because I feel he wants Rome to win). I, on the other hand, want Rome to lose which is why you're on the chopping block today. Plus, if someone else gets lynched, then I can't get you lynched tomorrow unless I want to die. That'd mean you'd be a shoo in to win with Persia. I can't have that.

The whole time I've been playing this game, I've literally been under the impression Mown wanted Rome to win for more than game reasons. I honestly think it is because of Rag and Niklor being Roman. The argument he gave me at the beginning of our discussions about how there was a greater chance with Rome/Persia being allied definitely made sense. But even with Rome having only one player left and Mown wanting to be combative over who gets lynched, despite how he shouldn't care who is alive at the end, just makes me think otherwise regardless of what he says.

But you know what they say. Can't please everyone.

Incidentally, history won't be repeating itself. I believe the elephant train is due to breach Rome's walls. All aboard for Rome's fall!

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology mafia
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:45 pm 
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I swear you guys have no sense of justice.

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