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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:41 am 
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I can't find my old rules questions thread so I'm making a new one a-la-Chiang!

This thread is for anyone (like N.I.B. and myself) that have the occasional question on the game but never find the right place to ask it.


Here's a couple of rules questions I've been wondering:

1) If I cast Call of the Full Moon and it gets countered, if I cast another one, will it disappear in my opponent's upkeep phase? Does that first one actually count as "casting a spell"?

2) All of these flipped creatures have me wondering what does a flipped creature retain from the other side. Does it keep any counters or auras on the card? If it took damage, is it still damaged?


thanks in advance for helping...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:46 am 
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1) Yes, since you cast it and it was countered.

2) Counters, auras and equipment are all retained on flip. As far as I'm aware damage (I take it you mean pre-flip and flipped post-combat same turn) should be too.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:03 am 
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Flip =/= Trasform.

When a card transforms, if the card type changes, the game-state checks whether counters/equipment/auras are legally placed on the card. If a Jace transforms, any aura will fall off.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:05 am 
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Depends on the aura. Suppression Bonds would stay for example.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:07 am 
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That's a thing.

Kitsune Mystic

^That is a flip card. Jace doesn't flip, he transforms.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:41 am 
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I have a couple of stupid questions about Altered ego:
1) what happens if you flicker it with eerie interlude or eldrazi displacer, does it die or copy a new creature?

2) What's meant to happen if I copy a creature that can transform e.g a werewolf? Can it transform or does it stay on that side?
Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:42 am 
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1) depends on wording. If it says it copies a creature when it ETB's, then it lives. If it's a 'when you cast", then it dies. It says ETB so you're good. It copies someone new!

2) it can't transform, based on my experience. I copied of bunch of transformable cards in campaign and i couldn't get any of them to flip

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:49 am 
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1) Copies a new creature. Can't copy a x/x where x = number of +1 counters received when paying x in addition to the casting cost, because x would be 0. Well you can, but it would be a 0/0. Unless you paid at least x = 1 when casting it; but that's only when you cast it, not when you blink (it loses all +1 counters when it's blinked) it. Oh and the card can't be countered :p

Hope that was clear.


2) It becomes a copy of the creature, all relevant text included, at least I think it should work like that, hasn't come up yet.


Last edited by Goblin Rabblemaster on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:57 am 
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All abilities are copied, but only double faced cards can transform. So when the transform condition is met the transform trigger goes on the stack but it fizzles upon resolution because it finds an illegal target


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:59 am 
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If you copy a Jace, and activate it's effect, you will resolve it as much as possible. If Altered Ego has to transform, it will go to the exile zone, and remain there.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:06 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:16 am 
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Chiang is talking about a card flipping, not transforming. He's right.

You're right too, otrisk, if we are talking about transforming cards.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:20 am 
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*Update* I'm dumb.

Altered Ego will resolve under Jaces effect, exiling itself, then returning to the battlefield as "Altered Ego", and it will trigger again, allowing it to copy a creature on the battlefield.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:23 am 
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^this is right.

Didn't realize the flip walkers specifically instruct you to exile them and return them transformed.

Also Barney, flipping is yet another mechanic :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:31 am 
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Update to your update: No it doesn't:

08/04/2016 If you copy a double-faced creature, Altered Ego will be a copy of the face that’s up when Altered Ego enters the battlefield. Because Altered Ego is not a double-faced card, it won’t be able to transform. If an effect instructs you to return it to the battlefield transformed when it leaves the battlefield, it won’t return and will remain in its new zone.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:32 am 
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that's been my experience. I tried flipping a copy of Lilly and she decided to never come back :(

story of my life

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:35 am 
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Update #2: I guess my initial ruling was right.

Update #3: A "Clever Imposter" will ETB again if it resolves Jace's 2nd effect.

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comme ... _in_magic/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:50 am 
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I guess you could also copy GR or hexproofs with Alter Ego right, as it says "any creature on the battlefield" not any creature you can target?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:55 am 
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I think pretty much every clone card ever has been able to copy anything on the field, because I don't think any of them have ever targeted. I can confirm for a certainty that Altered Ego works like this as I have copied a Gaea.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:57 am 
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Sjokwaave wrote:
I think pretty much every clone card ever has been able to copy anything on the field, because I don't think any of them have ever targeted. I can confirm for a certainty that Altered Ego works like this as I have copied a Gaea.


Whereas you are correct in your analysis, you are flawed in your premise that it works because you got a copy of Gaea's Revenge. Altered Ego is and can therefore target Gaea's Revenge.

Try it on Plated Crusher (which should work as well).

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