It is currently Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:31 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:59 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 03, 2013
Posts: 2562
Using one does thin the deck a little, but the fix for that would be to run as many lands as possible, yeah? This is the 2013 thread- we don't have the option of replacing them with basics. The only way to get more than the default number of basic lands is to inflate your deck to 63+ cards.



Wow, I typed all this up yesterday but it didn't post. I guess I got busy and never hit submit. Let's see if I can write it the same way I did yesterday:


In regards to deck building, in DotP 2013 specifically, I built my decks using the following process. This mainly revolved around the meta at the time when the game was the most up to date version available .

First thing I do is consider Goblin Gangland into the deck building. GG is the most powerful deck, and as such, it was the most common to run into. Some days, half my games were against GG. Every deck I built was built with that in mind. It needed to be able have a T5 win condition, and if there was a T4, that had to be in there as well. Barring that, the deck needed to be able to consistently win by T7. It would need cheap removal or cheap blockers, preferably with higher than normal Toughness, to disrupt GGs plans.

Now, the next logical step is, if I'm building my decks to optimize against the GG meta, then the other good players are too. Which means, beyond GG, the vast majority of decks I play against will have T4/T5 win conditions, consistently win by T7, and be able to remove or disrupt agro plans during T2-5.

As such, everything I built had the lowest possible curve while maintaining the ability to easily win by T7.

Obviously, there are exceptions to this rule. Control need not apply. Mana Mastery is also in another league, it plays by a different set of rules. However most of the decks in 2013 can be easily shoe-horned into a low curve agro deck. Take the example you brought up, Grinning Malice. This deck should top out at 4 5CMC cards with Demigod of Revenge. You do not need any other 5CMC card and you don't need anything in the decklist that costs more. All of your removal and all of the best creatures in the deck cost less.

If you take into consideration the fact that 2013 uses Hybrid mana you see why you don't need much mana fixing. Sure there are exceptions, IIRC the R/W deck has several cards that have funky casting costs, like WRR1 and that's a deck I would say needs 3 Fetchlands.

IF you build decks that way, you'll find that most of the builds you come up with fit within a deck that only uses 22-23 lands.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:03 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
My most recent attempt at Grinning Malice:

Lands(24)
11 x Mountain
9 x Swamp
4 x Evolving Wilds

Creatures(23)
4 x Demigod of Revenge
3 x Ashenmoor Gouger
2 x Goblin Deathraiders
2 x Onyx Mage
2 x Sootstoke Kindler
2 x Blood Cultist
2 x Hissing Iguanar
2 x Ashenmoor Liege
2 x Hellhole Rats
1 x Spiteflame Witch
1 x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

Other(13)
3 x Terminate
3 x Wrecking Ball
2 x Bituminous Blast
2 x Stabbing Pain
2 x Blightning
1 x Demonic Tutor
2x Maelstrom Pulse

Grinning Malice isn't a deck that ever really appealed to me. I didn't much like playing with or against it, so I didn't try very hard to make it work. The above list is a pile of cards with a decent curve, and is mostly designed to keep pushing through damage. We still have all 24 lands on account of six 5-CMC spells, and our mana can be surprisingly busy with a number of activated abilities.

A notable cut here is Blazing Specter. It's a very high quality card, but the damage just doesn't seem to be there, and we rarely get to take more than 1 card from them anyway.

I tried out Onyx Mage mostly as a curve filler, and it does good work an upgrade to Lyzolda and the Blood Cultists. We have precious few ways of generating appreciable on-board card advantage, and this combo is the only repeatable one (barring the 6-drop Deathbringer Thoctar). It's also a decent upgrade to Goblin Deathraiders, because deathtrouch and trample let you push through N-1 damage regardless of the size of the blocker.


Last edited by Trade_Phoenix on Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:42 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 30, 2015
Posts: 1455
While Maelstrom pulse is a powerful card, i'm not sure it's great in a R/B deck :P

_________________
Future Actual winner of Steam Showdown 5.
I have a Magic Youtube channel, check it out here!
https://www.youtube.com/c/Nighthawk233


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:50 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
I mix up Bituminous Blast and Maeltrom Pulse so often that I honestly didn't know what you were talking about.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:12 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
Singletons bother me. Especially if multiple copies of it are available in the card pool. They're just as unreliable as a regular singleton, but it's much more... visually displeasing. If the deck is better for having a card in it, it should be better for having two of that card in it.

-1 Ophidian Eye
+1 Aven Mimeomancer

There, that eliminates 2 singletons.

It happens annoyingly often that my build of Aura Servants is stuck with no creatures below 5 mana. Ophidian Eye has a lot of utility in it, but its primary use is simply to enable Daybreak Coronet, a function we don't need it for as much since adding Lifelink and Gift of Granite in the 22-land experiment. We don't really need it to draw cards, and it's the weakest of our available combat tricks. All these things combine to be a neat card, but these neat corner cases are rarer than the ones with Flickerwisp, a card we're also not using. Adding a second Aven Mimeomancer on the other hand, gives us an extra body below 5 mana, and 3/1 Geists, Stalkers, and Spiritdancers that go the distance for us all the time.

Lands(22)
12 x Plains
8 x Island
2 x Evolving Wilds

Creatures(17)
4 x Invisible Stalker
4 x Kor Spiritdancer
2 x Auramancer
2 x Aven Mimeomancer
2 x Totem-Guide Hartebeest
2 x Sun Titan
1 x Geist of Saint Traft

Other(21)
2 x Winds of Rath
2 x Mind Control
2 x Narcolepsy
2 x Pacifism
2 x Daybreak Coronet
2 x Empyrial Armor
2 x Griffin Guide
2 x Mammoth Umbra
1 x Eel Umbra
1 x Triclopean Sight
1 x Lifelink
1 x Gift of Granite
1 x Pariah


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
One thing I want to do is make heavy use of a deck's unique attributes. Find something that this pile of cards can do better than the others, and try to press it for an advantage. Otherwise you can probably do whatever you're doing better with a different deck.

My Born of Flame build is basically mono-red control, which is adaptable and fun to play (because Magma Phoenix is one of my favorite cards ever), but tends to sit below mono-black control, which does most of the same things more reliably, and gains life while doing it.
One thing mono-red can do that mono-black can't, though, is multiply its damage, so that's what we've done below. Swapping sweepers 1-for-1 with burn amplification leaves us with the exact same mana curve and a lot more danger:

Lands(24)
24 x Mountain

Creatures(10)
3 x Chandra's Phoenix
2 x Obsidian Fireheart
2 x Fire Servant
2 x Hostility
1 x Chandra's Spitfire

Other(26)
4 x Chandra's Outrage
4 x Searing Spear
3 x Searing Blaze
2 x Flames of the Firebrand
2 x Red Sun's Zenith
2 x Ruby Medallion
2 x Flamebreak
1 x Earthquake
1 x Beacon of Destruction
1 x Rain of Embers
1 x Lightning Bolt
1 x Fireblast
1 x Blaze
1 x Furnace of Rath



Burn Amplification works so well on turn 4 off Chandra's Spitfire that I wanted to see what would happen if I used all of it. Overall it's very "red"; Faster, but riskier. A little worse against goblins, because Magma Phoenix and Inferno Titan were all-stars, but a little better against Azorius, because the magnitude of our direct damage can overwhelm even an active Daybreak Coronet. The cards have more synergy overall(minus some anti-synergy between the spitfire and Hostility), but the cards individually are a little weaker. Furnace of Rath works against us half the time, Fire Servant dies for no value, Hostility gets chumped all day and we just can't find any burn to go with them. But none of that matters, because every once in a while you turn a Fireblast into like fifty 3/1 hastes and swing for a billion out of nowhere.


Last edited by Trade_Phoenix on Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:57 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 03, 2013
Posts: 2562
What are the Ruby Medalion's for?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:24 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 02, 2013
Posts: 3553
Location: 1,824.5 meters underground.
Preferred Pronoun Set: Mr.
sixty4half wrote:
What are the Ruby Medalion's for?

Good question.
I think I kept some in the black deck. Jet. Other than that there really isn't much need, especially in that red deck. Wonder if my decklists are still here somewhere. Sure they are and I haven't changed a thing. I should tear myself away from running my Drake/Fling deck in Arena and look for them.

_________________
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

New Arena Content Now! Streaming coming soon!
https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster
My band Shakey Deal YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBpPU1fbAjSPTfu3g0vubLw
Shakey Deal Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ShakeyDeal.Neil.Young.tribute/
Shakey Deal Audio Page
https://www.facebook.com/ShakeyDealAudio1/


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:28 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
I like being able to cast multiple spells when I have an opening. Buyback Chandra's Phoenix and recast it in the same turn, play Hostility and a Searing Spear at the same time, things like that. People are often concerned about land flood in mono-red, but I'm short on land far more often, and prefer to mitigate land flood with X-spells, which is why I'm running Blaze too. I've gone all-in on Chandra's Spitfire with both Red Sun's Zeniths and a Blaze while having only 3 lands in play thanks to Ruby Medallion. Without a medallion, that's a 2-point Blaze and a 4/3 Spitfire(6 damage), where I got three 1-point burn spells and a 10/3 Spitfire(13 damage).

They let us put a Fireheart roadblock down on turn 3 vs. Goblins, which is nice. Play Fireheart turn 3 vs. Crosswinds before they have Cancel mana available.

There aren't really any other cards I want maindeck(besides trying a different build entirely). Torch Fiend, Flame Slash, or Dragon Hatchling can come in depending on the matchup, but the Medallions seem solid against an unknown opponent.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:18 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 27, 2017
Posts: 27
Grim Procession has no promo cards, a lot of singletons, and a curve that can't really be made to be remotely aggressive given less than a dozen 2-drops, half of which aren't creatures. So I don't usually pay much attention to it.
Here's my current build:

Land(25)
11 x Plains
10 x Swamp
4 x Terramorphic Expanse

Creatures(23)
4 x Doomed Traveler
3 x Bloodhunter Bat
3 x Bloodgift Demon
2 x Mourning Thrull
2 x Onyx Mage
2 x Orzhov Guildmage
2 x Restless Apparition
2 x Voracious Hatchling
2 x Divinity of Pride
1 x Keening Banshee

Other(12)
4 x Pillory of the Sleepless
3 x Zealous Persecution
2 x Edge of the Divinity
2 x Debtors' Knell
1 x Vindicate


The card pool has a large quantity of high quality removal spells in it, but I personally feel that trading 1-for-1 and hoping to draw better than the opponent is a reliable way to lose a game of Magic, so we're only using about half of the available removal.
This build is a mix of things that are annoying and things that are dangerous. The idea here is that we harrow them with our life-sapping enchantments and little creatures that have to be killed twice, and then hit them with something big when they've exhausted their removal. Even the guildmage's abilities are dangerous when we've been plinking them to death for the last ten turns. We have card draw, tons of life manipulation, the best sweeper in the game, and inevitability in the form of those 7-mana Debtors' Knells.
There are going to be times when you'd prefer Unmake instead of the pillories, but the pillories do more to advance our gameplan. Likewise, you'll wish for a Castigate here and there, probably at the expense of Mourning Thrull. The nice thing about this card pool's curve is that it seems fairly modular and easy to sideboard against things that are giving you trouble.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group