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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:36 am 
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I took 2013 for a good spin this weekend, and you know, these decks are hard to build! Perhaps it's unfamiliarity at this point, but I feel like there were a lot more "tough choices" and different kinds of builds available for the decks in 2013, which certainly isn't the case in 2014. It was a fun experiment, and was a little surprised how much I shuffled some builds around.

Ancient Wilds is so much fun, how did we get four mono-green decks in 2014 and none of them are even remotely as interesting?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:28 am 
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I want to take out rain of embers, furnace of rath, and 3 chandra's phoenix for 2 hostility and 3 chandra's outrage. But I want to get a rain check on that beforehand

I would drop the 2 Pyre Charger (If you're pumping the charger, you're not playing other cards, and even if it trades with an enemy creature it's essentially just a clumsy burn spell. This deck can do better) and the Prodigal Pyromancer (This guy just never has the impact to justify his mana cost. We can do a lot better than 1 damage per turn from a 3-drop) instead of the Phoenixes and Rain of Embers. The Phoenixes are your workhorses in this deck; most of the time they will be the ones flying over the top to bring your opponent into range of your burn while your opponent is reluctant to remove them.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:35 am 
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I'm going to make a direct swap of pyre charger for hostility then. And I'm going to take prodigal pyromancer and furnace of rath out for something, probably two chandra's outrage. I'm not sure about the phoenixes, but I don't think it can hurt to test them in the new build for a while.



What is your reasoning behind leaving rain of embers in?

My problem with the card is that it has only been good vs goblins and humans. Or when it's on curve and I want to take out their one drop. While nice, it's been really situational. Is there something I'm missing there?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:02 am 
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I thought the same for a while, but if you look through the other decks, there are actually a surprisingly large number of x/1 creatures that will be very sad to see Rain of Embers, and not just in humans and goblins. It actually surprised me how effective it can be in quite a few matchups.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:08 am 
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Then 2 Outrage for now I guess. I haven't played in a while, so it can't hurt to test stuff out.


Here is the other deck that I want to make changes to before I go in:

"Starter"
A library for the Jace 2013 deck (Dream Puppets)
60 Cards. 35 nonlands (13 creatures, 22 spells). 25 Lands (25).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
cost  
-- 2x Hedron Crab
-- 4x Jace's Phantasm
-- 3x Thought Scour
-- 2x Unsummon
-- 2x Visions of Beyond
cost  
-- 2x Counterspell
-- 2x Howling Mine
-- 2x Into the Roil
-- 2x Jace's Erasure
cost  
-- 2x Aether Adept
cost  
-- 2x Clone
-- 3x Dreamborn Muse
-- 2x Font of Mythos
-- 1x Wheel and Deal
cost  
-- 1x Archive Trap
cost  
-- 1x Forced Fruition
cost  
-- 2x Prosperity


Everytime I build this deck, it's always based on the assumption that I can handle the incoming cards better than the opponent can.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:20 am 
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Do you really need 25 lands in a build that's so low-mana? Especially running so much card draw?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:07 am 
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E Luxo So wrote:
Do you really need 25 lands in a build that's so low-mana? Especially running so much card draw?



DOTP 2013 doesn't give you a choice on how many lands you are running.

It adds a specific number of lands, and you don't get to pick. There are ways to game this system in multicolor decks by adding and removing terramorphics, but since this is mono blue you have no choice but to run 25 islands in this particular 60 card deck. If I had a choice I would probably run 23 to test and 24 if that didn't work well.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:31 am 
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Oh yeah, duh.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:57 am 
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I guess while I'm getting help, I really need help cutting this one:

"Starter"
A library for the Ajani 2013 deck (Celestial Light)
60 Cards. 35 nonlands (20 creatures, 15 spells). 25 Lands (25).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
cost  
-- 4x Serra Ascendant
-- 4x Soul Warden
-- 1x Basilisk Collar
-- 2x Swords to Plowshares
cost  
-- 4x Ajani's Pridemate
-- 2x Ajani's Sunstriker
-- 2x Knight of Meadowgrain
-- 1x Ajani's Mantra
-- 2x Divine Favor
cost  
-- 2x Recumbent Bliss
cost  
-- 2x Chastise
-- 2x Day of Judgment
-- 1x Well of Lost Dreams
cost  
-- 2x Baneslayer Angel
cost  
-- 1x Felidar Sovereign
cost  
-- 1x Serra Avatar
cost  
-- 2x White Sun's Zenith


The biggest problem here seems to be that the deck doesn't have a win condition. It just seems to be gain a ton of life until you can get one of the few creatures that gets really fat from that.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:40 am 
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Drop Serra Avatar - It's effectively an overpriced vanilla beat-stick. It's going to do basically jack when your already losing and it's lack of evasion means it can't even serve as a decent finisher since it can be chump-blocked by literally everything.

Drop Ajani's Mantra - You really shouldn't need this thing. The life it provides is both tiny and very slow. Best case scenario it's a trigger for your Pridemate's each turn but you really sholdn't be hurting for ways to trigger those effects.

Drop Divine Favor - I'm not a fan of these things in this deck but there not terrible. I just don't really see them as needed in this deck - anything your will want to swing with is plenty large as is and you have enough lifegain that you can afford to take a hit here and there.

Replacement Options
Elixir of Immortality - It's cheap, provides a decent amount of lifegain that can be used at instant speed and recycles your graveyard so you can use your powerful cards multiple times. What's not to like?

Kemba's Skyguard - Not great by any means but it's a cheap quick flyer and sometimes that's what you need.

Seraph of Dawn - Same as the Skyguard but a little slower in exchange for a much higher defense and an ability that continues to contribute.

Rhox Faithmender - A solid wall in and of himself he also allows you to hit those 30/40 life point marks this deck needs to hit to win with exceptional ease.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:38 am 
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I'd echo Garren's comments, except for the Elixir. I know it looks nice, but unless the Well of Lost Dreams is up and running at full force (and if it's running at full force, why aren't you winning?), chances are you won't see very many of the cards you recycled. This essentially means that we're dedicating card slots to pure lifegain, which is not a good idea even in this deck.

I would also go down to 3, possibly even 2 Serra Ascendant. They're insane once you get to 30 life, but until you do they're a French Vanilla 1/1 and not exactly game changers. You want these guys to appear mid- to late-game, not in your starting hand.

I'd also recommend two Solemn Offering as possible additions. A bit like Rain of Embers, it may surprise you just how many targets it actually has. Almost every deck had a handful of powerful enchantments or artifacts that can be most annoying if unanswered. Erratic Portal, Future Sight, Sulfuric Vortex, Wild Pair, basically all of Peacekeeper's removal spells. Panoptic Mirror. The list goes on.

Other possible additions are Loxodon Warhammer (a tad slow, yes, but once it gets going it turns any creature, and particularly your fliers, into potent threats), White Sun's Zenith (I know it looks pricey, but this deck likes to go long and this for X=3 or more on your opponent's end step can be game winning), and Purity (basically shuts down BoF and against other decks it's still a Flying 6/6. Something has to close the game out for us if the lifegain doesn't go off perfectly).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:50 pm 
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@drac, first of all wsz is already in the deck. The other point of contention is that I think it's a bad idea to run anything other than 0 or 4 copies of serra ascendant. I think it's too situational to only run 2 or 3, and I think even as a french vanilla it's worthy of the inclusion for blocking purposes on the first few turns.

I guess I'll try a warhammer, a faithmender, and 2 warning instead of the avatar, the mantra, and the 2 favor.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Actually, two Serra's Ascendant is the perfect number; it's a hell of a deal when it's online, but the card itself doesn't help you get there unless your opponent's board is empty. By including a pair you have a good chance to draw into one later in the game after you've set up.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:01 pm 
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With the flyers and the longer games you can get out of this deck, Swell of courage can be a remarkably effective finisher. Unfortunately, it has to be timed perfectly. Also, I run Marshal's Anthem in pretty much every deck that has it. Then again, I am a sucker for recursion.

Here's my cut. Admittedly, its for 2HG and I always run 61 cards in 2013 so take from it what you will.

[2HG] "Starter"
A library for the Ajani 2013 deck (Celestial Light)
61 Cards. 36 nonlands (21 creatures, 15 spells). 25 Lands (25).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
cost
-- 2x Serra Ascendant
-- 4x Soul Warden
-- 1x Basilisk Collar
-- 2x Swords to Plowshares
cost
-- 4x Ajani's Pridemate
-- 2x Ajani's Sunstriker
-- 2x Knight of Meadowgrain
cost
-- 2x Slith Ascendant
-- 2x Recumbent Bliss
-- 2x Solemn Offering
cost
-- 2x Seraph of Dawn
-- 2x Chastise
-- 2x Day of Judgment
-- 1x Marshal's Anthem
cost
-- 2x Baneslayer Angel
-- 1x Swell of Courage
cost
-- 1x Felidar Sovereign
cost
-- 2x White Sun's Zenith

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:50 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
@drac, first of all wsz is already in the deck.

Indeed it is. :doh: I'm not blind, I promise.

Quote:
The other point of contention is that I think it's a bad idea to run anything other than 0 or 4 copies of serra ascendant. I think it's too situational to only run 2 or 3, and I think even as a french vanilla it's worthy of the inclusion for blocking purposes on the first few turns.

Early blocking purposes? This is a lifegain deck, what do you care if your opponent gets in for a few points of early damage? Plus you've got no less than eight 2-drops that will do a much better job of early defence. As a french vanilla the Ascendants are just 1/1 Lifelinkers that will never do any real work bringing themselves online, and you won't want to chump with it because then you lose the 6/6 later on. Better to replace 1 or 2 with cards that will help bring the others online faster.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:18 pm 
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"Starter"
A library for the Dimir 2013 deck (Rogues' Gallery)
72 Cards. 43 nonlands (22 creatures, 21 spells). 29 Lands (12 13; 4 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 4x Terramorphic Expanse
cost  
-- 2x Extract
cost  
-- 2x Dimir Guildmage
-- 2x Inkfathom Infiltrator
-- 1x Invisible Stalker
-- 4x Agony Warp
-- 1x Glimpse the Unthinkable
cost  
-- 2x Neurok Invisimancer
-- 2x Phantom Warrior
-- 1x Royal Assassin
-- 1x Soul Manipulation
cost  
-- 1x Abyssal Specter
-- 1x Ashling, the Extinguisher
-- 1x Glen Elendra Liege
-- 3x Moroii
-- 1x Unliving Psychopath
-- 2x Barrin's Spite
-- 3x Flight of Fancy
-- 3x Helm of the Ghastlord
-- 2x Necromantic Thirst
cost  
-- 1x Ghastlord of Fugue
-- 1x Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
-- 1x Nemesis of Reason
-- 1x Painful Quandary
-- 2x Ribbons of Night
cost  
-- 1x Harvester of Souls
-- 1x Laquatus's Champion

I want to cut this down to 60 cards. That means I need to remove about 6 or 7 cards using the 2013 land algorithms. What would you guys suggest?

Unless someone really argues otherwise, glimpse and the 2 extract will be coming out. But the other 3 or 4 I'm not sure about.

Disclaimer: There will not be a single moroii coming out of this deck.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Duels truly is for Moroiions.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Duels truly is for Moroiions.


In contrast, I think any dimir deck in 2013 or 2014 not running every single possible copy of the card is built wrong.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on it.


On that note, how does this look after some trimming?

"Starter"
A library for the Dimir 2013 deck (Rogues' Gallery)
60 Cards. 36 nonlands (19 creatures, 17 spells). 24 Lands (10 11; 3 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 3x Terramorphic Expanse
cost  
-- 2x Dimir Guildmage
-- 2x Inkfathom Infiltrator
-- 1x Invisible Stalker
-- 4x Agony Warp
cost  
-- 2x Neurok Invisimancer
-- 2x Phantom Warrior
-- 1x Royal Assassin
-- 1x Soul Manipulation
cost  
-- 1x Abyssal Specter
-- 1x Ashling, the Extinguisher
-- 1x Glen Elendra Liege
-- 3x Moroii
-- 1x Unliving Psychopath
-- 2x Barrin's Spite
-- 3x Flight of Fancy
-- 3x Helm of the Ghastlord
-- 2x Necromantic Thirst
cost  
-- 1x Ghastlord of Fugue
-- 1x Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
-- 2x Ribbons of Night

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Necromantic Thirst is pretty awful. So is running three each of the Helm and Flight. This isn't an aura deck, by any means.

Unliving Psychopath is bad here, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:49 pm 
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Mjack, here are some cuts I would make from the 72 card list:

Cut Helm of the Ghastlord. It too often draws a 2-1. I'd rather play a creature that draws removal (there are enough of them) and save myself a card. Granted, it works great with Inkfathom Infiltrator, but I ran Dimir Cutpurse in their place and focused on granting evasion.

Cut one copy of Barrin's Spite. The requirements to play it are restrictive enough that I never really want to see 2 of them, and sometimes not even one. The same could be said (well, sort of) about Necromantic Thirst; I would only run one.

Cut Unliving Psychopath. The removal is too costly / conditional, especially in a two-color deck. A 0/4 wall for 4 is not worth a spot.

So that's 6 suggestions on what to cut. I'd also try to fit in the Dimir Cutpurse if you remove the helms.

Hope that helps!

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