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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:30 pm 
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I'm humiliated in clarifying that I AM playing on Mage difficulty at this point and am still getting rolled over.

That's a great suggestion about going back to Innistrad Explore Node. I'll do that. So far I can't beat the spiders but i'm sure I'll figure that one out easier than the Minotaurs. Thanks guys!

LOL, don't feel bad. ;P We all have to start somewhere! Spider deck sounds like it could be challenging, I look forward to playing against it as well!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:48 pm 
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I'm humiliated in clarifying that I AM playing on Mage difficulty at this point and am still getting rolled over.

That's a great suggestion about going back to Innistrad Explore Node. I'll do that. So far I can't beat the spiders but i'm sure I'll figure that one out easier than the Minotaurs. Thanks guys!
I wouldn't worry about it. I will probably be playing on mage because the computer loves to cheat and they don't need any more help in doing it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:00 pm 
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[Premium]

Spiderspawning graveyard recursion v1.

Spoiler


Spiderspawning graveyard recursion v2. Now with more lube.

Spoiler


Spiderspawning graveyard recursion v3. Probably the final cut for a while.

Golgari does whatever a spiderpig does:

CMC
{1]: 4 Death Cultist
{2}: 4 Satyr Wayfinder, 3 Treasured Find, 4 Elvish Visionary, 4 Bloodghast
{3}: 2 Reclamation Sage, 4 Necromancer's Assistant, 1 Bloodflow Connoisseur, 4 Phyrexian Rager
{4}: 3 Gravedigger, 1 Vengevine
{5}: 3 Spider Spawning, 3 Rescue from the Underworld

Lands:

9 Swamp
9 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate


changes: out with the demon and the wurm and the battledriver, in with more early pressure. So subst those with 2 Bloodghast and 1 Vengevine.

No more dead cards in hand for several turns, just play aggressively and trade away while milling and filling the yard, and as soon as midgame approaches, spider spawns should finish it out.

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Last edited by Mwuanno on Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:01 am, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:05 pm 
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Mwuanno wrote:
[Premium]

Spiderspawning graveyard recursion.

Golgari does whatever a spiderpig does:

CMC
{1]: 4 Death Cultist, 4 Pharika's Chosen
{2}: 4 Satyr Wayfinder, 3 Treasured Find
{3}: 1 Beastmaster Ascension, 4 Necromancer's Assistant, 1 Bloodflow Connoisseur
{4}: 4 Gravedigger
{5}: 3 Spider Spawning, 3 Rescue from the Underworld
{6}: 1 Charmbreaker Devils
{7}: 3 Pelakka Wurm, 2 Rune-Scarred Demon
{8}: 1 Griselbrand

Lands:

10 Swamp
8 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate


Charmbreaker.....*rubs eyes to make sure eyesight is working*. Mistake or hopeful raising from the dead target? :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Nuke2099 wrote:
Charmbreaker.....*rubs eyes to make sure eyesight is working*. Mistake or hopeful raising from the dead target? :)


I added explanation - but yes, he's definately in there for the rescues.. especially since he gets rescues back... I mean, you should see this when it goes off....

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Mwuanno wrote:
Nuke2099 wrote:
Charmbreaker.....*rubs eyes to make sure eyesight is working*. Mistake or hopeful raising from the dead target? :)


I added explanation - but yes, he's definately in there for the rescues.. especially since he gets rescues back... I mean, you should see this when it goes off....


It doesn't get rescue back, not the ones you played.
The rescue exiles itself after you cast it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:12 pm 
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****..... you're right...

It can still rescue milled rescues... but the treasured finds do that just fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:58 am 
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I really like self mill right now but have to say spider spawning is not that great. If there was more ways to self mill it could be good, the problem is if you don't draw 3 or more of the 8 cards that have that effect the deck is pretty weak. I have cut spawning for a more consistent game plan with recursion and fatties. It has a nice back up plan in the fact that the fatties do not rely on the graveyard and can just be cast in the late game.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:11 am 
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Monk1410 wrote:
I really like self mill right now but have to say spider spawning is not that great. If there was more ways to self mill it could be good, the problem is if you don't draw 3 or more of the 8 cards that have that effect the deck is pretty weak. I have cut spawning for a more consistent game plan with recursion and fatties. It has a nice back up plan in the fact that the fatties do not rely on the graveyard and can just be cast in the late game.


Have you tried running my build ? I'm 52 wins to 11 losses online with it atm. I know, it's not 90% winrate, but if you show me a deck that has that, I'll switch...

(actually, I won't, I just play what I enjoy. Right now, it's Azorius control for lols)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:08 am 
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I was a few cards from that when I started, I found I rarely lost to my opponent, more that I lost to my own deck doing nothing. I wanted to eliminate or reduce that as much as possible. Visionary and phyrexian rager help a lot on that regard, also I win a lot through random beats with these guys, wayfinder, necromancer's assistant and bloodghast.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:39 am 
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Yeah, I recently swapped in Phyrexian Rager in place of the Pharika's chosen - upsetting the curve slightly, but the extra draw is felt when you're aiming for 5/7 mana anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:09 am 
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I'm wondering which of these buffs you guys like more for the Spider Spawning build: Elder of Laurels, Chorus of Might, or Beastmaster Ascension?

-Elder of Laurels is a creature and synergises with spawning, but is the easiest to remove. Small plus side; it can activate multiple times per turn if you have the mana for it.
-Beastmaster Ascension is useless when milled (unless you happen to have a Treasured Find...), but is more difficult to remove and provides a permanent boost to ALL your creatures. Worse when you're somehow lacking in creatures (<7), though.
-Chorus of Might is an instant, so it's useless when milled, but it does have surprise value. You can use it to kill one of their bigger creatures, or push for (lethal) damage. Plus side is trample.

Chorus of Might and Elder of Laurels synergise well with making Wandering Wolf unblockable, Child of Night for big lifegain or Agent of Fates for a sacrifice effect. Of those, Chorus of Might gives valuable trample to Nemesis of Mortals and/or Scion of the Wild.
Yet the general, permanent bonus of Beastmaster Ascension is not too be underestimated either (or is it a win-more card?).

I'm currently running 1 Elder, 2 Chorus and 2 Beastmaster. Somehow, Beastmaster always seems to get milled. Chorus has been good, but Elder of Laurels has been amazing against the AI. I fear though that intelligent opponents will remove him instantly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:16 am 
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Deck Name: Dead or Alive(Should be renamed Fun as Hell)
Golgari with slight blue splash

5 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Orzhov Guildgate

2 x Rhox Faithmender
1 x Baneslayer Angel
2 x Resolute Archangel

4 x Necromancer's Assistant
2 x Sanguine Bond
3 x Rescue from the Underworld
2 x Rune-Scarred Demon
1 x Griselbrand

4 x Satyr Wayfinder
4 x Cultivate
4 x Saruli Gatekeepers
2 x Nemesis of Mortals
2 x Pelakka Wurm

2 x Millstone
3 x Treasured Find

I use the Millstone, Necromancer's Assistant and Satyr Wayfinder to fill up the Graveyard. Also, Satyr doubles to grab land for me with Cultivate. The massive healing helps to not only barter for time as the 2/4 Gatekeepers are also a big help blocking, plus over time, I've been able to hard cast virtually anything. Also, the gatekeepers are a prime candidate to sacrifice with Rescue from the Underworld to get a fatty out.

Treasured Find is great to pull out not only a fatty but a dropped Rescue or other card as well. Nemesis of Mortals is great this way to simply cast for 2 mana and then make it monstrous for only 2 more mana.

I changed up some of this from original and added in another win condition with Sanguine Bond and more healing. I suppose I could drop something and add another Pelakka to enhance this further. Already I've won one with simply casting a Gatekeeper with a Bond out.

What I like about the Rhox is even though he's great on healing, he's also a mobile wall.

This will do until we get some better recursion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:16 am 
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Left4Doner wrote:
I'm wondering which of these buffs you guys like more for the Spider Spawning build: Elder of Laurels, Chorus of Might, or Beastmaster Ascension?

-Elder of Laurels is a creature and synergises with spawning, but is the easiest to remove. Small plus side; it can activate multiple times per turn if you have the mana for it.
-Beastmaster Ascension is useless when milled (unless you happen to have a Treasured Find...), but is more difficult to remove and provides a permanent boost to ALL your creatures. Worse when you're somehow lacking in creatures (<7), though.
-Chorus of Might is an instant, so it's useless when milled, but it does have surprise value. You can use it to kill one of their bigger creatures, or push for (lethal) damage. Plus side is trample.

Chorus of Might and Elder of Laurels synergise well with making Wandering Wolf unblockable, Child of Night for big lifegain or Agent of Fates for a sacrifice effect. Of those, Chorus of Might gives valuable trample to Nemesis of Mortals and/or Scion of the Wild.
Yet the general, permanent bonus of Beastmaster Ascension is not too be underestimated either (or is it a win-more card?).

I'm currently running 1 Elder, 2 Chorus and 2 Beastmaster. Somehow, Beastmaster always seems to get milled. Chorus has been good, but Elder of Laurels has been amazing against the AI. I fear though that intelligent opponents will remove him instantly.


I've opted to run without the pump, and based on the last 25-30 duels, there is not a single game that would have ended differently with beastmaster or similar overrun effect. In a 100 duels, there will probably be a handful of games where beastmaster just fits so perfectly after a spider spawning where you have 7+ creatures to take full effect. And I promise you, there will be at least twice that many where it's a dead card in your graveyard :/

I've ended up focusing on what the deck does best, early pressure trading little freaks, to ending the game with a LOAD of little freaks. Will I get run over by other stuff ? Yes, certainly. I will lose every time to Siege Dragon or an early hero with ascension enchanted on it if I don't manage to grab a Reclamation Sage in time. But those are the only real threats. I just recently won a game after having had Planar Cleansing twice and Anger of the Gods twice to clear out my army. 4 times he killed them off, 5th time he just went ffs in chat and conceeded.

But I digress. Best choice ? Beastmaster and hope for a treasured find if you get it milled. And make sure you do not cast it until you have 8-9+ creatures in play. Nothing worse than playing it with 7 creatures, and having 1 of them killed or bounced. Then opponents turn, he removes Beastmaster and leaves you a little flustered and probably tapped out ready to eat the counter-attack.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:37 am 
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I think the deck needs to be really picky about its noncreature spell slots because you want a critical mass of critters in your graveyard. Assuming 24 land, 3 Rescues, and 3 Spider Spawning as the "core" of the deck, you are left with 30 slots. Of those 30, I would think at least 27 (maybe more) should be creatures to maximize Nemesis of Mortals and Spider Spawning. For additional noncreature spells, I think Treasured Find is an okay bullet to have in your deck but running three is just insane; the correct number is either one or zero.

If you're going to dump something in the graveyard, you want it to do something. Critters power up the Spawnings, Ascensions don't.

I'm going to play this archetype tonight and I'll post my list after some more testing. I think Monk is correct that the deck can be slow if you don't hit a Wayfinder or Assistant in your opening grip, but a full set of both Visionaries and Ragers should increase the consistency and they are great cards to sacrifice to Rescue because you get a fresh card when they come back.

I think the key is to realize that you're planning to win via Spiders, so don't be afraid to sacrifice a Wayfinder targetting an Assistant just to build your graveyard; you don't have to hold Rescue and wait for that fatty. After you resolve your first Spawning you buy a ton of time to get the big guys into play, either through Rescue or just hardcasting them from behind your Spider wall.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:20 am 
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Beastmaster is almost an auto win when you play it the turn after spiders. While it may seem like a "Win-More" card, it turns long drawn out spider attacks into 1 turn wins. This lessens the chance of losing to non-combat based damage or being hit with Anger of the Gods / planar cleansing. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is only 1 way in the entire meta to instant-speed remove an enchantment.

It's also a great card to tutor with the rune-scarred demon. Either a 1 of beastmaster + 1 of treasured find, or 2 beastmaster is fine in addition to spiders and rescues i think. The other non-creature spells being a few cultivates to fix black mana.


Last edited by tself55 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:21 am 
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Quicken Planar Cleansing? :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:24 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Quicken Planar Cleansing? :)


Heh guess that makes 2 ways if you also count cloudshift on an already played reclamation sage (which isnt as easy to pull off heh). Quicken+Planar Cleansing implies blue control so you're probably more likely to just eat a counterspell in that matchup.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:26 am 
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tself55 wrote:
Beastmaster is almost an auto win when you play it the turn after spiders. While it may seem like a "Win-More" card, it turns long drawn out spider attacks into 1 turn wins. This lessens the chance of losing to non-combat based damage or being hit with Anger of the Gods / planar cleansing. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there is only 1 way in the entire meta to instant-speed remove an enchantment.

It's also a great card to tutor with the rune-scarred demon. Either a 1 of beastmaster + 1 of treasured find, or 2 beastmaster is fine in addition to spiders and rescues i think. The other non-creature spells being a few cultivates to fix black mana.


I don't think you need Cultivates because the Wayfinders help you fix your colors and I don't think the deck really needs the ramp. I'm excited to get online with this tonight, you make a good point about using a single Ascension to grab off the Rune-Scarred Demon, I'll consider it after I play a bit more. I just think you should generally be able to win by going really wide with Spiders and swinging right past the opposing blockers for a one-shot kill even without the Ascension.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:28 am 
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tself55 wrote:
Hakeem928 wrote:
Quicken Planar Cleansing? :)


Heh guess that makes 2 ways if you also count cloudshift on an already played reclamation sage (which isnt as easy to pull off heh). Quicken+Planar Cleansing implies blue control so you're probably more likely to just eat a counterspell in that matchup.


You could also activate Jalira and hit a Reclamation Sage at instant-speed, too, and I'm sure there are other Quickenable spells. Isn't Solemn Offering in this game?

I'm not suggesting anybody actually run these cards, though. :)

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