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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:57 am 
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For reference, here is the Esper Artifact deck I have been tooling around with for some time now. Note that this does not include the new mana because I have yet to even get on the game since the update. Obviously this can be worked out to be more consistent now.

[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Esper Artifacts

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 12 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Creature24 cards
■■■■
Etherium Sculptor1/2
■■■■
Glaze Fiend0/1
■■■
Myrsmith2/1
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■
Master of Etherium*/*
■■■
Galvanic Juggernaut5/5
■■■■
Sanctum Gargoyle2/3
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
Spell12 cards
■■■
Gods Willing
■■■
Vapor Snag
■■■■
Courier's Capsule
■■
Bident of Thassa
Land24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
■■■■
Orzhov Guildgate
6
Island
4
Plains
5
Swamp

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:57 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
You're whole deck with artifacts is pretty much going to be fliers. And in any case it's slight synergy with a 2 copy card would be immaterial to me. However, it's restrictive mana cost IS an issue, and the fact that it won't survive a battle with a 1/1 is also a problem. The death touch, while relevant, really isn't that interesting. I get that you aren't trying to do the whole recursion thing, but in some ways that makes the card even worse. It's a defensive creature in an obviously offensive build. I'd rather see Squadron Hawks tbh (and that's not even trying to think hard about it)

Edit: and I agree about adding Gods Willing in.


I don't see how a two-power creature with evasion for two mana is a defensive creature. Yeah it can play D, but it can also just swing in every turn.

On another note why are we talking about the mana here? Arcane Sanctum has been out for a while guys, the Wedge lands are just gates that are better with Obelisk.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:55 am 
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I dunno, I've tested them a lot, and they never make the cut. I do have a concept in mind where they'd make sense, but more on that later. I just don't see them as good for your deck. They're just going to be your most expensive trigger. They won't make your long term cut, unless you end up abandoning the concept.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:49 am 
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Here try this one instead. It's early, but I think it's pretty tight as a card set.

[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Master of Mists

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 19 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Gods Willing
■■■
Ulcerate
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 8 cards
■■
Master of Etherium*/*
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
■■■
Tribute to Hunger
Cost 9 cards
Master of Waves2/1
■■■
Paragon of Gathering Mists2/2
■■■
Tower Gargoyle4/4
■■
Bident of Thassa
Cost 2 cards
■■
Mercurial Pretender0/0
Cost 2 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
Land24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
9
Island
4
Plains
5
Swamp


This is just about lords lords and more lords. Give it a shot, and let me know your thoughts.

Notes: basically this deck aims to be a blue agro fliers deck. Giving Master of Etherium flying is just plain nasty. Mercurial Pretender targets should be obvious. Everything else is pretty straightforward IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:21 pm 
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The whole concept of my particular list is building around Myrsmith and Glaze Fiend, so I need a high density of artifacts for the triggers. Spells like Gods Willing are great, and I may add them, but I think the Sanctum Gargoyles give me a hedge against removal. Obviously it's much slower, but again, artifact density is important for what I'm doing.

The more I ponder it, the more I want to chop that Obelisk for a Darksteel Axe or something. Not sure why I added it, this deck concept always wants to be the beatdown. On another note, I actually think a single Meteorite is fine and if I ever draw my single Esperzoa then look out!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:27 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Here try this one instead. It's early, but I think it's pretty tight as a card set.

[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Master of Mists

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 19 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Gods Willing
■■■
Ulcerate
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 8 cards
■■
Master of Etherium*/*
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
■■■
Tribute to Hunger
Cost 9 cards
Master of Waves2/1
■■■
Paragon of Gathering Mists2/2
■■■
Tower Gargoyle4/4
■■
Bident of Thassa
Cost 2 cards
■■
Mercurial Pretender0/0
Cost 2 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
Land24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
9
Island
4
Plains
5
Swamp


This is just about lords lords and more lords. Give it a shot, and let me know your thoughts.

Notes: basically this deck aims to be a blue agro fliers deck. Giving Master of Etherium flying is just plain nasty. Mercurial Pretender targets should be obvious. Everything else is pretty straightforward IMO.


Master of Waves should give you a reason to think about Cloudshift over Gods Willing. You can also blink a Pretender to shapeshift it.

It looks a little threat-light to me, but that's just a quick glance.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:33 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
Here try this one instead. It's early, but I think it's pretty tight as a card set.

[manapie 90 w u b -r -g][/manapie]

Master of Mists

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 19 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 7 cards
■■■■
Gods Willing
■■■
Ulcerate
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Tidehollow Strix2/1
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 8 cards
■■
Master of Etherium*/*
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
■■■
Tribute to Hunger
Cost 9 cards
Master of Waves2/1
■■■
Paragon of Gathering Mists2/2
■■■
Tower Gargoyle4/4
■■
Bident of Thassa
Cost 2 cards
■■
Mercurial Pretender0/0
Cost 2 cards
■■
Sharding Sphinx4/4
Land24 cards
■■■
Arcane Sanctum
■■■
Azorius Guildgate
■■■■
Dimir Guildgate
9
Island
4
Plains
5
Swamp


This is just about lords lords and more lords. Give it a shot, and let me know your thoughts.

Notes: basically this deck aims to be a blue agro fliers deck. Giving Master of Etherium flying is just plain nasty. Mercurial Pretender targets should be obvious. Everything else is pretty straightforward IMO.


Master of Waves should give you a reason to think about Cloudshift over Gods Willing. You can also blink a Pretender to shapeshift it.

It looks a little threat-light to me, but that's just a quick glance.


I considered that, and will test it, thx. I just built this about 1 hour ago, so I'm still trying it out, but it plays very well so far.

About your deck, the tech you want, and the tech you need is Artful Dodge. Oh man. Just try it. lol

edit: just think about what happens when you get all your triggers in and your little 0/1 flyer gets to be massive, and they have a blocker and they think they are safe, and then bang, out of the blue, you render that little friend unblockable... GG

edit2: it also plays nice with Sharding too


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Oh snap, I had multiple huge Masters in my few games with the deck as well, Dodge is a one-shot kill with six creatures in my deck. Do I trim at Ulcerate since Dodge just wins me the game? I think I'll test that swap and see if the lack of removal is an issue.

Stoked to try it out.

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Last edited by Hakeem928 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:40 pm 
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I don't know, you'll have to test it, but it's so obvious I can't believe I never tried it until about 15 minutes ago. I'm totally sold.

edit: as for what to remove, you know my vote is on the Strix. lol. But, ignore me, and do what you do. :-)

Gods Willing in those situations is also probably GG. btw. But Dodge is probably better.


Last edited by DJ0045 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:42 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
I don't know, you'll have to test it, but it's so obvious I can't believe I never tried it until about 15 minutes ago. I'm totally sold.


Obvious is right, there's no question it belongs in the deck.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
I don't know, you'll have to test it, but it's so obvious I can't believe I never tried it until about 15 minutes ago. I'm totally sold.


Obvious is right, there's no question it belongs in the deck.


Yeah, seriously. I'm building my version right now. It will be slightly different from yours, but not much. Myrsmith, Fiend, Sculptor at 2, Dodge at 1, Master at 3, etc... I'll figure it out later, but it's going to be pretty nasty so far as I can tell.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:00 pm 
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With Artful Dodge in the pile, I think Juggs over Sanctum Gargoyle could be better at 4CMC. Megabeast will be happy but we shall see.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
With Artful Dodge in the pile, I think Juggs over Sanctum Gargoyle could be better at 4CMC. Megabeast will be happy but we shall see.


Anywhere you go full colorless you get the possibility (albeit small) of it being free up to 4 CMC. So there's also that to consider. I dunno if it would matter.

edit: I should also mention Darksteel is a possible #60 in this deck. I dunno if I'd use it, but the option is there.


Last edited by DJ0045 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:34 pm 
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Note that this does not include the new mana because I have yet to even get on the game since the update. Obviously this can be worked out to be more consistent now.


I just wanted to point out my post/joke earlier @ Hakeem.


Hakeem928 wrote:
On another note why are we talking about the mana here? Arcane Sanctum has been out for a while guys, the Wedge lands are just gates that are better with Obelisk.


Oh...I didn't see this...looks like he saw it.

:D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:01 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
I don't know, you'll have to test it, but it's so obvious I can't believe I never tried it until about 15 minutes ago. I'm totally sold.

edit: as for what to remove, you know my vote is on the Strix. lol. But, ignore me, and do what you do. :-)

Gods Willing in those situations is also probably GG. btw. But Dodge is probably better.



My original version of the deck (which I posted above) ran Artful Dodge.

I ended up swapping over to Gods Willing because it more often than not does exactly the same thing, while also scrying, and providing a way to blank removal on important threats.

Seriously guys, this is a deck that I have been slowly but surely tuning since we got Shard lands.

Like a good 80% of the time Gods Willing is going to be functionally identical to Artful Dodge in this particular type of deck.

The question becomes what is more important to you.

Artful Dodge is slightly easier on the mana (since we are at base more shifted towards :u: ) and has the potential to be flashed back the following turn.

Gods Willing gives us the option to save important threats and helps to set up our draws to suit the situation.

My preference is Gods Willing, and I am relatively sure after a decent deal of testing, that you both will agree with me.

Edit: Also, herp a derp on the mana thing lol.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:05 pm 
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I think I'm just going to play Cloudshift to untap Juggernauts.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:05 pm 
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I mentioned that earlier. Personally, I like both, and I play GW in some versions and AD in others.

The thing about AD is its double use. That's a big deal, and I've had it win a few games for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:21 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
I mentioned that earlier. Personally, I like both, and I play GW in some versions and AD in others.

The thing about AD is its double use. That's a big deal, and I've had it win a few games for me.


Yeah, they both have their advantages.

The big ones being:

Artful Dodge gets you two hits out of a single card (as opposed to one from Gods Willing).

Gods Willing can blank removal, which can be extremely powerful early on. People would be surprised by the amount of tempo gained from blanking a Shock or the like on a Fiend in the first couple turns. It not only saves your creature and puts them down a removal card, but can also muck with their ability to race you. Forcing them to spend cards/mana on ineffectual removal instead of actual threats can often be all the tempo advantage you need to win right then and there. Most especially when you have cards like Fiend to punch in for a ton early on, and do so relatively consistently.

AD certainly isn't a bad suggestion, I will certainly give you that :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Think of it this way (or at least I do). Non exile removal and you're probably seeing that card again. I think it depends heavily on the intended deck. In Hakeem's build, he is really pushing for tempo and big creatures. In that deck, there are going to be turns, mid game, where one artful dodge wins it. I think in the engine builds, where you are relying heavily on some of the automatic combos, God Willing will be better as it will protect your creatures. By that thought process, I'd prefer Artful dodge in your build too. That's my 2 cents anyway.

I'm still testing 3 competing builds right now though, so I'm not certain of anything at this time.

Edit: In my version, I actually topped out with removal. I'll post it up later as it's different enough from the two of you. It's a different take on the same engine, but it's a bit slower, and more centered on board presence.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:37 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I think I'm just going to play Cloudshift to untap Juggernauts.


What? That sounds awful. Don't let your matches with me be the cause of that change. That's a terrible change IMO. Play removal to untap Juggy.

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Last edited by megabeast37215 on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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