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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:17 am 
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Traveler's Amulet at 2 would be better, no? You could cast and crack on T2.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:33 am 
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Yes and no, sphere guarantees that I've got my double green (and probably double red) every time I see it. The deck has some difficult mana requirements at 4/5 CMC.

The alternative is to drop Rockslide, in favor of cultivate, and sphere in favor of probably wayfinders (which have the added bonus of possibly putting additional unearth type cards in the gy).

But then why call the deck Rockslide Ogre :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:06 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
2x2=4

If you don't crack your Sphere early then you didn't need it and should've done something else on T2. Cultivate ramps you for one less net mana and it's in your colors, I don't see how you can pick Sphere in any green list.

Also, unless you are playing 4 or 5 colors in your deck then I'd argue Traveler's Amulet is a better mana-fixing option because it costs half as much. I also tend to beat Traveler's Amulet decks. Cultivate decks not so much. :)


Here, I agree with you.

I can think of more than a few decks where I would rather be running Armillary Sphere instead of Cultivate, even using a deck running :g: though.

Bant Control being the most obvious answer here.

I made a post about this just the other day in the Dimir thread.

The real advantage of Armillary Shere (one which this particular deck isn't really looking for, hence why I say I agree with you here in regards to this deck) is that cracking it can occur at instant speed. I would say that in about 70% of my Control decks I would prefer Armillary Shere to Cultivate.

Cultivate may be cheaper, Cultivate may ramp for you, but Armillary Sphere makes sure you consistently are able to hit land drops (while also helping to fix) without the need of having to tap out and leave your opponent open to play whatever they want.

Cultivate on T3 means being tapped out when your opponent plays that Rabblemaster, or Brimaz, or Thoctar, or Rhox, etc. The same is true of turns 4+.

The real advantage of Armillary Sphere is that it can function like a land based version of Think Twice. Sure, we can crack it early if needed to hit land drops (much like sometimes the best use of Think Twice is to use it on your own main phase to try and ensure a land drop), but that isn't the IDEAL use for the card.

No, the card is best used when cracked on an opponents End Step on a turn in which they haven't done anything worthwhile, much in the same way cards like Think Twice and Inspiration are used. Except here instead of getting gas, it gets us Land. This can not only help with fixing in general, but is overall a pretty big help for decks which want to consistently be able to make land drops every turn (aka Control decks) without having to tap out so they can keep removal/counterspells/etc up at all times.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:23 am 
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I don't think those arguments necessarily fail in this deck. We have shock. ;-)

No, but seriously, you're right wrt controlish builds for sure. The more instants your deck is running the more I'd consider Armillary sphere. Unless of course, I'm running any of the sorcery/instant trigger creatures (young pyromancer for example), then we're probably still running cultivate.

I just want my fixing out of the way of my required plays to stay on tempo. In this deck, those cards are on 1, 3, and 5. One thing I could have done is run 3-4 Traumatic Visions. Hmmm, that might actually be the better card here. It's in the right mana slot, and has later utility. It fails to get me to GG or RR, which is needed. I dunno.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:10 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
I don't think those arguments necessarily fail in this deck. We have shock. ;-)

No, but seriously, you're right wrt controlish builds for sure. The more instants your deck is running the more I'd consider Armillary sphere. Unless of course, I'm running any of the sorcery/instant trigger creatures (young pyromancer for example), then we're probably still running cultivate.

I just want my fixing out of the way of my required plays to stay on tempo. In this deck, those cards are on 1, 3, and 5. One thing I could have done is run 3-4 Traumatic Visions. Hmmm, that might actually be the better card here. It's in the right mana slot, and has later utility. It fails to get me to GG or RR, which is needed. I dunno.


Traumatic Visions may not be a bad call. The only thing to keep in mind is that you need to hit :u: for the land cycling, which can make it a little less consistent as an early way to fetch up a needed land in those situations where you don't make those early land drops. This is all depending on the mana though, and to be honest, I haven't taken the time to really look at how you have your land set up so you may be able to swing it without any changes.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:15 am 
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It would support the single U requirement for sure. But it still doesn't fix enough. I'd really want either Sphere, or Cultivate.

Or... I need to remove The Ogres so that I can rebalance towards additional G and U mana.

But this entire discussion is based on the idea that sphere is a BAD card, and I actually reject that notion.

I do however believe that +3 Satyrs, -3 Spheres, -3 Rockslide, +3 Cultivate is probably the better build. You don't lose much, and you gain a lot. I'm going to test that build later, because I Suspect it's the better build.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:34 pm 
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I'm curious... what do you guys think of -2 Ogres, -2 arbor colossus. +2 Phytotitan, +2 Jalira and then +3 visions - 3 spheres?

It reduces the strict mana requirements significantly and adds a secondary sub theme. Plus Phytotitan actually dies every time Jalira Sacs him. Rockslide get big, Rockslide get Angry... lol. So would the Raptors of course. Huge actually. Plus of course, Jalira can sack all of the unearth cards too as I did in that other deck that one time.

Too slow? too Timmy/Johhny? or actually a good idea?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:03 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
I'm curious... what do you guys think of -2 Ogres, -2 arbor colossus. +2 Phytotitan, +2 Jalira and then +3 visions - 3 spheres?

It reduces the strict mana requirements significantly and adds a secondary sub theme. Plus Phytotitan actually dies every time Jalira Sacs him. Rockslide get big, Rockslide get Angry... lol. So would the Raptors of course. Huge actually. Plus of course, Jalira can sack all of the unearth cards too as I did in that other deck that one time.

Too slow? too Timmy/Johhny? or actually a good idea?


Total fail. Tried it, did not like.

From what I can tell (still early), the correct version is + 2 Gobblin Rabblemaster, + 2 Cultivate, + 2 Satyr Wayfinder, - 3 Spheres, - 3 Rockslide Elementals. No changes to the mana base.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:13 pm 
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I woud rather save my removal for important cards, destroying sphere is the same as countering cultivate, sure sometimes you screw them but useually you just slow them a bit and spent a counter (or removal in this case)



Of course, this is true more times than not.
But on those lonely boring nights, wanting to see/do something unorthodox, and being that Negate rhythms with Cultivate, will Negate a Cultivate.

Nevertheless, it is best to not do so.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:49 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
From what I can tell (still early), the correct version is + 2 Gobblin Rabblemaster, + 2 Cultivate, + 2 Satyr Wayfinder, - 3 Spheres, - 3 Rockslide Elementals. No changes to the mana base.


When is the correct play NOT rabblemaster. Rabblemaster, Brimaz, Baneslayer . . . I hate these cards. It changes the game from being about synergy and deck design to revolving around undercosted bombs that only exist as one or two ofs in your deck. That said, I do run them, but I feel kinda bad when I get them and the game turns into OOPS I WIN. I have a Jund deck that is designed to be kinda midrange, moderately slow with some decent control elements, but all it takes is a rabblemaster to put a 3 turn clock on my opponent.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:56 am 
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wait you mean you aren't a spike henwen?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:24 am 
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With the Introduction of Bear's Companion and Frontier Bivouac I came up with Temur Tokens:

[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Temur Tokens

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 19 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 2 cards
■■■■
Shock
Cost 16 cards
■■
Jade Mage2/1
■■■
Young Pyromancer2/1
■■■
Ground Assault
■■■■
Krenko's Command
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 6 cards
■■
Goblin Rabblemaster2/2
■■■■
Cultivate
Cost 2 cards
■■
Ogre Battledriver3/3
Cost 7 cards
■■■
Bear's Companion2/2
■■
Mycoloth4/4
■■
Doubling Season
Cost 2 cards
Inferno Titan6/6
Soul of Zendikar6/6
Cost 1 card
Craterhoof Behemoth5/5
Land24 cards
■■■
Frontier Bivouac
■■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■■■
Izzet Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
6
Forest
1
Island
6
Mountain


This deck has lots of sweet synergies and most cards are still powerful on their own.

The blue is just a splash color, but still gives us Think Twice for some card advantage and synergy with Young Pyromancer. Triggering Young Pyromancer with Cultivate is also pretty sweet.

Bear's Companion is a decent 5-drop to ramp into from a turn 3 Cultivate and is awesome with Doubling Season.

Ogre Battledriver doesn't need an introduction and is an absolute boss in this deck.

A tokens deck where Craterhoof Behemoth is castable :D

Inferno Titan for value.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:25 am 
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Thanks for posting the deck. I watched your video earlier and i really like this deck.

Why no Beastmaster Ascension?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:47 am 
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probably because his deck already has doubling season and you should only have 1-2 "do nothing" cards


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:08 am 
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HenWen wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
From what I can tell (still early), the correct version is + 2 Gobblin Rabblemaster, + 2 Cultivate, + 2 Satyr Wayfinder, - 3 Spheres, - 3 Rockslide Elementals. No changes to the mana base.


When is the correct play NOT rabblemaster. Rabblemaster, Brimaz, Baneslayer . . . I hate these cards. It changes the game from being about synergy and deck design to revolving around undercosted bombs that only exist as one or two ofs in your deck. That said, I do run them, but I feel kinda bad when I get them and the game turns into OOPS I WIN. I have a Jund deck that is designed to be kinda midrange, moderately slow with some decent control elements, but all it takes is a rabblemaster to put a 3 turn clock on my opponent.


I'm usually looking not to play those cards, but the rarity restrictions really get in the way. A lot of the time, I'm not building the deck I'd want to build because I'm limited on card counts, so there are holes at certain CMCs that shouldn't be there. So when I've got to fill 1/2 slots, I gravitate towards good cards, even though they aren't actually synergistic. I think a lot of people are forced to do that, whether they realize it or not.

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not trying to rehash the rarity debate again. I'm just saying that in a Janky combo deck like the one I posted, I'd rather not have the hole at 3 CMC in the first place. But since I can't run 8 2*4 of the Hellspark elemental and Ground assault at 2CMC, I have a weird gap to fill. I don't think the deck becomes OP with that change. Lol

I should also mention that at the top end there are problems as well. The deck has mana issues, because I can't run 4X Vengevine, Masked Admirers, and Garruk's Packleader. If I could, the deck would be smooth, it wouldn't need cultivate or spheres. Don't know if those changes would make it OP. It's hard to say.

Bottom line I'm forced to run cards I don't want to run. They may look good, but they aren't good for the deck.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:40 am 
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wait you mean you aren't a spike henwen?


Generally I try to make the best choices that are available for a given deck, but I seldom play aggressive early decks. I think that if I really wanted to win then white or white/red aggro is the way to go, but I find that type of deck pretty boring. So I generally play combo or control decks but I do not shy away from powerful cards just for the sake of a theme.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:12 pm 
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DaRkStAr wrote:
Thanks for posting the deck. I watched your video earlier and i really like this deck.

Why no Beastmaster Ascension?


Pretty much had to choose between Ascension and Doubling Season.
With cards like Ogre Battledriver, Doubling Season becomes much more appealing.

This deck doesn't go as wide as Selesnya tokens since it doesn't have Triplicate Spirits or Selesnya Evangel.
If we have an active Mycoloth in play we are likely already winning.
Bigger token generators like Soul of Zendikar and Bear's Companion don't take full advantage of the Ascension unlike Selesnya.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Any one got an idea for a land destruction deck in these colors?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:41 am 
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LegenVD wrote:
With the Introduction of Bear's Companion and Frontier Bivouac I came up with Temur Tokens:

[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Temur Tokens

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (17 :creature: , 19 :instant: , 24 :land:)

Cost 2 cards
■■■■
Shock
Cost 16 cards
■■
Jade Mage2/1
■■■
Young Pyromancer2/1
■■■
Ground Assault
■■■■
Krenko's Command
■■■■
Think Twice
Cost 6 cards
■■
Goblin Rabblemaster2/2
■■■■
Cultivate
Cost 2 cards
■■
Ogre Battledriver3/3
Cost 7 cards
■■■
Bear's Companion2/2
■■
Mycoloth4/4
■■
Doubling Season
Cost 2 cards
Inferno Titan6/6
Soul of Zendikar6/6
Cost 1 card
Craterhoof Behemoth5/5
Land24 cards
■■■
Frontier Bivouac
■■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■■■
Izzet Guildgate
■■■■
Simic Guildgate
6
Forest
1
Island
6
Mountain


This deck has lots of sweet synergies and most cards are still powerful on their own.

The blue is just a splash color, but still gives us Think Twice for some card advantage and synergy with Young Pyromancer. Triggering Young Pyromancer with Cultivate is also pretty sweet.

Bear's Companion is a decent 5-drop to ramp into from a turn 3 Cultivate and is awesome with Doubling Season.

Ogre Battledriver doesn't need an introduction and is an absolute boss in this deck.

A tokens deck where Craterhoof Behemoth is castable :D

Inferno Titan for value.


Might be just me, but splashing blue for Bear's Companion and Thick Twice doesn't seem enough. I want this to work though.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:00 am 
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Hey guys so here is my version of a Temur land kill deck.
The idea is pretty straight forward you slow down your opponent by destroying his lands with Demolish, Tectonic Rift and the Mold Shambler.
Mean while you produce tokens from Young Pyromancer and Talrand, Sky Summoner.
The Cunning Sparkmage and Shock are to deal with small creatures as well as helping you to kill your opponent if the game stalls.
Vapor snag can be used either defensively or offensively depending on the situation, with the extra benefit of getting tokens out of it.
Charmbreaker Devils work as graveyard fetch but can also deliver a final blow.
Banefire is self explanatory.
Stormbreath Dragon is another win condition.
For mana fixing and a bit of acceleration I put in Darksteel Ingot and cultivate.

I'm really happy with this deck and it's a lot of fun to play. If I get my opponent into a land lock early on most of them just rage quit buy the 6-7 turn.

This is the first deck I submit so any feedback is more than appreciated.

[manapie 90 -w u -b r g][/manapie]

Land Kill

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (15 :creature: , 23 :instant: , 22 :land:)

Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Shock
■■■■
Vapor Snag
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Young Pyromancer2/1
Cost 10 cards
■■■
Cunning Sparkmage0/1
■■■■
Cultivate
■■■
Darksteel Ingot
Cost 13 cards
■■■■
Mold Shambler3/3
■■
Talrand, Sky Summoner2/2
■■■■
Demolish
■■■
Tectonic Rift
Cost 1 card
Stormbreath Dragon4/4
Cost 2 cards
■■
Charmbreaker Devils4/4
Cost 1 card
Banefire
Land22 cards
■■■
Frontier Bivouac
■■■■
Gruul Guildgate
6
Forest
2
Island
7
Mountain


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