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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:41 pm 
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My super friends just lost badly to this deck, I'm going to build it right away

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:24 pm 
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tried the deck, was blown away at the amount of card interaction the deck possessed


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:21 am 
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Should I always be drawing a card when I untap key to the city ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:41 am 
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Cracking deck list, i'm loving the speed and interactions :)

my favourite win so far has been using a Pia and Kiran trigger to sac a thopter to kill Pia and Kiran after theyd been blocked by a flashing Herons grace Champion which allowed the other thopter and an Heir to hit for the win :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:04 am 
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Should I always be drawing a card when I untap key to the city ?


I think it's fine to not always draw off Key; I'll do it (rough estimate) around 85% of the time I think.

The more interesting question I think: Say you're in the opponent's end step and you won't pay 2 mana to draw from Key next turn. Which cards would you discard/madness off?
Obviously you still kill creatures with Fiery Temper. But, do you madness Temper to the face? Alms of the Vein? Do you discard a land/Neonate so that Bloodhall Priest gets his attack trigger guaranteed?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:10 am 
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I've just started playing this deck but I've played Socur's deck a ton which is similar to this but wants to void the hand much more badly (that's never good English).

Do you Temper the face? Depends on the match-up, against Mill, yes absolutely.
Do you Alms of the Vein? Yes, always.
Your third question is MUCh tougher to answer, trying to extract maximum value out of Bloodhall Priest is important but shouldn't be done at the expense of losing the match (this is obviously very hard to gauge, so it depends situationally on what you're discarding).

I've noticed that between this deck and Socur's deck, I'm drawing with Key to the City less than 50% of the time which probably isn;'t enough. I tend to not do it when I have a card in hand like Kalitas which i really want to play and forgo drawing a card. The thing is drawing cards really increases the mid-range potential of the deck to win the game later. With Socur's deck, it's easier to not draw with Key because you want to void your hand pretty badly (Onnery, Bloodhall, Lupine...) but it's not a big concern with this deck (Bloodhall). So I should probably be drawing more. i need to get used to that. And to the idea that ditching a land with Key just to draw a replacement card isn't a bad idea sometimes/often.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:27 am 
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i think it needs more lands. i find myself opening with 1 land a lot of times. this deck needs at least 2 to work properly. Any ideas which ones to cut?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:38 am 
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Should I always be drawing a card when I untap key to the city ?


Always, no, but usually. Even when you've got something like a Bloodhall Priest that wants your hand to be empty, Key lets you turn around and discard one of the two things you drew while you presumably cast the other one. It doesn't always work out, but the percentage is very high. Plus, it doesn't take long for an unblockable 4/4 to win the game even if you're not getting the trigger.

Key to the City serves a bunch of purposes in the deck and netting card advantage is only one of them. Sometimes you just need to punch a Scrounger through a couple times to win. Sometimes you need to deal three off your Unlicensed Disintegration. Sometimes you need to work through a land flood, or even go the other way; I've had games where I played Key on turn 2 and immediately pitched something like Pia and Kiran, then paid the two, just to try to get lands to apply the rest of my hand to the board. Mostly, Key is a cost reducer for the 20% of your deck that is madness cards, and then lets you recoup the card the next turn, hopefully finding another Temper or Alms to keep the cycle going. It doesn't take much to end the game this way.

I definitely do not advise adding more lands. Mulligans exist for when you get 0-1 in your opener (though some hands that are thick with Nerd Apes and Couriers can keep a one Mountain hand and give it a try). Two lands turns on most of your deck and is usually all you need to justify a keep. Neonate, Copter, Key, and even Sanitarium can all help filter your deck to deal with mana floods and mana droughts.

As for Fiery Temper to their face or not, it all depends on game state. The way to play the deck is always watching their life total. Sometimes you will only need to deal 6-8 points in combat to know that you have the rest of the damage in your hand. Usually, though, you will want to Temper to clear early blockers or threats (Sylvan Advocate, Tireless Tracker, opposing Copters) so you can keep swinging, with any Tempers drawn late being held onto for finishing purposes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:21 am 
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I certainly need to play this deck more. I see Key to the city as mostly a tool to play Madness and draw cards. i almost completely forget that it can put my Bomat Couriers (and others) unblockable. Jeez... so much going on with this deck...butete is right, the interactions are insane

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:35 pm 
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I certainly need to play this deck more. I see Key to the city as mostly a tool to play Madness and draw cards. i almost completely forget that it can put my Bomat Couriers (and others) unblockable. Jeez... so much going on with this deck...butete is right, the interactions are insane


The inevitability of it is really high. There are so many games where by turn four or five the life totals are like 23 to 6. Even when your opponent rips their Languish or Planar Outburst, they're probably not going to come back fast enough to stop you from drawing the last burn spell or two you need to end it.

It takes a little practice to pilot well and to make good looting decisions, but when it gets going, it's brutally efficient.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Insane farming deck! Can help those still in need of bolas gold before AR's release.

Tried adding 1 swamp in exchange for 1 pia and kiran. Seems to be working well. 3 bodies for four mana is insane plus the activated ability makes it a great card but 4 mana is still expensive for this deck. I rarely cast them since I dont usually have 4 mana's on my fourth turn and waiting for another one so they can attack takes away too much momentum. I find myself discarding them to make one of my cards unblockable.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:37 pm 
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butete09 wrote:
Insane farming deck! Can help those still in need of bolas gold before AR's release.

Tried adding 1 swamp in exchange for 1 pia and kiran. Seems to be working well. 3 bodies for four mana is insane plus the activated ability makes it a great card but 4 mana is still expensive for this deck. I rarely cast them since I dont usually have 4 mana's on my fourth turn and waiting for another one so they can attack takes away too much momentum. I find myself discarding them to make one of my cards unblockable.


The thing about Pia and Kiran is that sometimes four mana is a lot and you'll wind up pitching one to Key to the City or Bomat Courier, sure. But other times, it is the gold card for winning the mirror or squaring off with other aggro decks. It's a great tool to lean on when you're trying to win a race or exhaust an opponent relying heavily on spot removal.

The number of times your hand gums up with 2x P&K or Chandra or Bloodhall Priest is pretty low. It happens, but not enough to make me want to drop down to just one.

Still, glad you're having fun with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Gabrosin wrote:
butete09 wrote:
Insane farming deck! Can help those still in need of bolas gold before AR's release.

Tried adding 1 swamp in exchange for 1 pia and kiran. Seems to be working well. 3 bodies for four mana is insane plus the activated ability makes it a great card but 4 mana is still expensive for this deck. I rarely cast them since I dont usually have 4 mana's on my fourth turn and waiting for another one so they can attack takes away too much momentum. I find myself discarding them to make one of my cards unblockable.


The thing about Pia and Kiran is that sometimes four mana is a lot and you'll wind up pitching one to Key to the City or Bomat Courier, sure. But other times, it is the gold card for winning the mirror or squaring off with other aggro decks. It's a great tool to lean on when you're trying to win a race or exhaust an opponent relying heavily on spot removal.

The number of times your hand gums up with 2x P&K or Chandra or Bloodhall Priest is pretty low. It happens, but not enough to make me want to drop down to just one.

Still, glad you're having fun with it.


Have you updated it since aether revolt?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:10 am 
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A quick look tells me it doesnt get updated with the new cards. Cant see anything new that can add or upgrade the interaction already inherent in the deck. Just me though. I think its perfect and i dont wanna mess with perfect. But if someone out there has an idea...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:32 am 
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It seems like Weldfast Engineer should be able to do something somewhere. Turn 3 swinging 5/3 copters?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:56 pm 
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It seems like Weldfast Engineer should be able to do something somewhere. Turn 3 swinging 5/3 copters?


Aye. Weldfast Engineer and Aethersphere Harvester are both worth considering IMO.

I have been having fun with Scrap Trawler in my Rakdos Artifact deck also, although it probably is only worth considering in a more artifact focused build.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Hungry Flames really fits.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:03 am 
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Hi ! I'm currently playing this deck, but i feel like something is missing. Works pretty well, and i still need to get the bilands black/red from Zendikar. Plz, make some constructive critics ! This is my first post ever on this website, hope I did it right.
PS : this deck has 2 black/blue cards. Still feel it's a Rakdos deck, as it haven't got any blue mana.

Artifacts (8):
2 x Bomat Courier
2 x Scrapheap Scrounger
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City


Red (15):
2 x Lightning Axe
2 x Avacyn's Judgment
4 x Fiery Temper
4 x Cathartic Reunion
1 x Bedlam Reveler


Black (11):
3 x Heir of Falkenrath
4 x Alms of the Vein
1 x Liliana, the Last Hope
3 x Haunted Dead


Bi-color (5):
2 x Prized Amalgam
1 x Olivia, Mobilized for War
2 x Bloodhall Priest


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:56 am 
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For what you are trying to do, check out Socur's Grixis deck that won the KLD Steam Showdown.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:13 am 
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-4 Cathartic Reunion; +4 Insolent Neonate

The deck is designed to be very aggressive and you're not running enough lands to often pay Madness when discarding off Reunion. Also, the card tends to be dead when you're hellbent (which I assume can happen very frequently).
Neonate discard is free and gives you another way for Scrounger to get out of the Yard.

-1 Bedlam Reveler, -1 Liliana, the Last Hope; +2 Asylum Visitor

I don't know the exact spread of your manabase, but double-black for Liliana seems like a stretch; also she is more of a goodstuff card in this deck rather than mandatory to the synergies. Bedlam Reveler seems a tad too expensive for the deck, as you won't be able to pushbits cost too terribly low.
Asylum Visitor works well with the Hellbent theme of the deck and is another great Madness card.

These are the changes I'd pretty mich always make. Other than that, you can make some others: If you want to be more grindy, run Cryptbreaker and Ghirapur Orrery over Alms of the Vein. In this case, you could also consider cutting Heir of Falkenrath for removal as well as a land or two.

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