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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:10 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
Only if you have both out. So not really a 5/5 very often.


Still, that is a nice trample card. I was eyeing it for my Gruul Ramp Deck.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:36 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I finally drew Flameshadow Conjuring last night, wasn't impressed. I think I'll slot in a Roil there and increase the numbers based on how it plays.

And I agree about the archetype's strength.


I tried it out and I'll +1 your swap for flameshadow. Short of having it boarded AND playing a Gaea's or Outland AND having no enemy blockers then it just became too much mana to wait for. Roil will do well and I plan to swap it out when I get back.

Meta wise I'd have to agree. Add one Reclamation Sage in there for some utility and any control/mill decks will find their removal ignored by your larger creatures, and their Tutelage destroyed. Super aggro could still trump this with early auras, but aside from that and maybe a few steal/sac decks I can see R/G midrange being more dominant than other mid-late strategies (not sure what "late" decks exist atm).
What about the 4/4 dryad that does the same thing? its more costly but then if the deck is ramping surely a 4/4 is better than a 2/1? The only exception I can see is if you are using Woodland Bellower or you just want the low costed 2/1.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:21 am 
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Haven't lost with this one yet:
Name: Cup of Gruul
Lands: 22
Spells: 38
4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Gatekeeper Vine
3 x Elvish Visionary
3 x Ravaging Blaze
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
3 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
4 x Mwonvali Acid-Moss
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Chandra's Ignition
1 x Woodland Bellower
3 x Into the Maw of Hell
1 x Gaea's Revenge

8 x Mountain
8 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Gruul Guildgate


When I get 2nd Gaea's Revenge, I'll replace the Woodland Bellower.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:44 am 
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been using this deck all night its really fun and amazing i can just picture their face when i keep destroying their lands >:( lol is it suppose to be 61 card deck or is that a typo?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:49 am 
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typo. Was supposed to be 2 x elvish visionary. 61 cards is fine though.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:03 am 
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I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask for play tips, but since the deck fits I'll give it a go anyway. Clearly there is a better build, but this is based off what I've read here (thanks!) and what I have in my collection.
Name: R/G Grinder
Lands: 24
Creatures: 20
Spells: 16
1 x Fiery Impulse
2 x Might of the Masses
2 x Goblin Glory Chaser
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Gatekeeper Vine
2 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Timberland Guide
1 x Undercity Troll
4 x Inferno Fist
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 x Wildsize
3 x Kird Chieftain
1 x Conclave Naturalist
1 x Chandra's Ignition

8 x Mountain
10 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
3 x Gruul Guildgate
1 x Evolving Wilds


This deck is clearly pretty strong for grinding AI, and I've done that successfully, I've barely touched it in ranked just because ranked matches simply take longer, but I do have some questions about this deck, and other (better) versions of it.

First: Nissa, is she really worth it? I'm guessing vs. AI it simply doesn't matter, but vs. actual decks she provides some alternate win condition, though it seems getting to her ultimate isn't really the design of this deck. If Nissa is a poor fit what to replace with?

Second: I only have one Fiery Impulse, but am running Inferno Fist in it's place. I find I really like this card, but I don't see it in a lot of decks. Is it too slow? Is it the notion that auras tend to be lost in 1:2 trades? I find it amazing on whatever I can pump with Wildsize, but that combo is usually over 2 turns, so the risk I assume is that a real player will remove it, and you would need to keep one on hand to sac it. Even so, that 2 damage is like a Myr to me, it's 'better' than Fiery Impulse in that it can go to face, it's worse in that it can't do 3.

Third: This is more of a technical play question, I'm experienced with CCGs generally (MMDoC mostly), but the nuances of Magic are something I'm missing. In general you like to be able to get down a creature on 2, then attack and pump with Wildsize, ideally taking out a blocker, this gives card advantage on the draw effect. But, if your opponent doesn't block, is it still correct to use the Wildsize? Or are you better off using another 2 drop, even if that leaves a mana open?

Against the AI I frequently have a 2/2 Timberland Guide on my 3rd turn, if they have no blockers out then I'm inclined to use the Inferno Fist for the extra damage, even if I don't have a spare to activate on their turn. Or is it better to just Wildsize, same 2 damage, but you get the draw. I even consider simply playing another 2 drop to bulk up the board. However, on turn 4, now when you attack and Wildsize, you're off curve (however you guys say it here...). Your mana efficiency is out of whack, yet it feels like the better play is still to hold the Wildsize for a better opportunity, especially if you wind up turn 8 with both Wildsize and Kird Chieftain ability to really create trample wipe out.

Fourth: Tuning up this deck to do more than beat down AIs means changing out what exactly? Or am I mixing a bit too much here, is it either add more cheap creatures and Fiery Impulse, or take out the 1 drops and pack more at the back end?

Thanks so much for your answers.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:08 pm 
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@licker: 1. Nissa's pretty powerful. Even if she dies as soon as she hits the board you gained an extra land. Generally I save her for when I put her out she's being flipped but if I'm in dire need of a land (usually due to missing a land drop) I'll use her knowing that more than likely she'll die before I get that 7th land in however many more turns. She's a keeper in nearly anything with :g: imo.

2. Inferno Fist isn't bad but I would usually go with Fiery Impulse as you get them. It is only a single mana instead of 2-3 and you have the possible 3 damage as well. I think in most situations, Impulse is slightly better/more efficient.

3. This is a somewhat tricky question. I also played MMDoC a lot and really loved the game but it just got to be a bit too expensive to stay competitive imo. I also really enjoy HS and been playing MtG for over 2 decades. That being said, while it is important to keep things going and always be doing something with your available lands, I think in magic there are certainly more scenarios where saving something back is the right move more often than DoC or HS. As far as using Wildsize to do extra damage to the face and draw a card it would be very situational imo. If I missed a couple land drops I probably wouldn't think twice about using it to draw a card (hell, in extreme cases I've used it solely for that purpose hoping to draw into something I really need when things look really bad). Overall it is usually better to use it to make sure you not only get the draw but also get that 2 for 1 with another creature while blocking/being blocked. Oh, and your use of being "off curve" works here; I would assume most people here know exactly what you mean there.

4. As far as what direction to go in...Personally I like the somewhat heavier end Gruul. Zendikar Incarnate combined with Chandra's Ignition is a game winning move usually. I run a version of a Flameshadow Conjuring build (I have everything unlocked and playing only online ranked for the most part). I haven't really put much thought into a faster small creature Gruul build but I'm sure there's a decent one in there somewhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:20 pm 
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Thanks for the comments. I lack enough other interesting cards to modify this deck greatly at the moment, but I'm kind of looking for ideas as I do get cards in the dribs and drabs of 1 pack a day :)

I understand that due to your ability to interact on your opponents turn holding mana back has other purposes whereas in HS or MMDoC there's no point to it, so getting your hand out quickly (with some control exceptions) is far more important than sitting back. Thus the notion of staying on curve is slightly different, though it also depends on the deck you are playing here. It's a bit of an adjustment in thought, as are the mechanisms for card advantage, since in MMDoC anyone can draw 2 per turn, and unlimited hand size along with plentiful draw abilities make for a different dynamic where the limitation is almost always your mana, not your hand.

My thoughts on Nissa are more that as a starting card she's almost a dead 3 drop for me since I usually have something else I want to do, and leaving her on the board for 4 turns seems a bit underwhelming compared to other more active options. I'd rather play Chandra I think, but not having her I can't say for sure. I will have to do some more pvp play though, AI is fine for grind, but I don't think you learn too much in that arena.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:29 am 
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licker wrote:
I'd rather play Chandra I think, but not having her I can't say for sure.


I doubt you would :) Chandra is a dead weight in my Gruul deck most of the time. She's either untransformed for 2-3 turns or instantly dead. But maybe it's just me.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:37 am 
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licker wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I lack enough other interesting cards to modify this deck greatly at the moment, but I'm kind of looking for ideas as I do get cards in the dribs and drabs of 1 pack a day :)

I understand that due to your ability to interact on your opponents turn holding mana back has other purposes whereas in HS or MMDoC there's no point to it, so getting your hand out quickly (with some control exceptions) is far more important than sitting back. Thus the notion of staying on curve is slightly different, though it also depends on the deck you are playing here. It's a bit of an adjustment in thought, as are the mechanisms for card advantage, since in MMDoC anyone can draw 2 per turn, and unlimited hand size along with plentiful draw abilities make for a different dynamic where the limitation is almost always your mana, not your hand.

My thoughts on Nissa are more that as a starting card she's almost a dead 3 drop for me since I usually have something else I want to do, and leaving her on the board for 4 turns seems a bit underwhelming compared to other more active options. I'd rather play Chandra I think, but not having her I can't say for sure. I will have to do some more pvp play though, AI is fine for grind, but I don't think you learn too much in that arena.


I would go to say Nissa is the best Planewalker. She gives you her flip condition, gives you instant Card Advantage, gives you a 4/4, and can burst to give you SIX 6/6 that can attack on the same turn! Her first ability alone is reason to play her.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:35 am 
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licker wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I lack enough other interesting cards to modify this deck greatly at the moment, but I'm kind of looking for ideas as I do get cards in the dribs and drabs of 1 pack a day :)

I understand that due to your ability to interact on your opponents turn holding mana back has other purposes whereas in HS or MMDoC there's no point to it, so getting your hand out quickly (with some control exceptions) is far more important than sitting back. Thus the notion of staying on curve is slightly different, though it also depends on the deck you are playing here. It's a bit of an adjustment in thought, as are the mechanisms for card advantage, since in MMDoC anyone can draw 2 per turn, and unlimited hand size along with plentiful draw abilities make for a different dynamic where the limitation is almost always your mana, not your hand.

My thoughts on Nissa are more that as a starting card she's almost a dead 3 drop for me since I usually have something else I want to do, and leaving her on the board for 4 turns seems a bit underwhelming compared to other more active options. I'd rather play Chandra I think, but not having her I can't say for sure. I will have to do some more pvp play though, AI is fine for grind, but I don't think you learn too much in that arena.


I would go to say Nissa is the best Planewalker. She gives you her flip condition, gives you instant Card Advantage, gives you a 4/4, and can burst to give you SIX 6/6 that can attack on the same turn! Her first ability alone is reason to play her.

What you say is true, but in a fast or rush or whatever it's called here deck she slows you down, unless you are playing her late. Granted she is better than a Gatekeeper Vine, even if the etb effect is the only one you get, so keeping her in a deck with them as a replacement for one makes total sense to me.

I played a run of maybe 10 pvp last night with this deck, did 6-4, which probably should have been better, but I'm not that good yet, also had a game where I didn't draw my 3rd land until turn 6, and another game where I was flooded, so I don't think that record is quite as bad as it felt :) But my take away was that in the games where I drew Nissa I either used her as a small beat stick since I was able to keep the opponents board clear (and Wildsize and Might of the Masses) so she never flipped, or flipped after it was a foregone conclusion. In the couple of games where I did flip her the benefit of her draw ability was marginal, and I probably should have just flipped her into the 4/4 in one game, but that game was spiraling out of control for me so I'm not sure it would have mattered what I did.

My sample size is low, my overall knowledge of Magic is small, so I'm going to keep going with her, since I don't see a great reason to ditch her for anything else, maybe I'll find more value there than what I see so far, but I appreciate all your feedback.

I did tweak the deck a little though, +1 Elvish Visionary -1 Timberland Guide +1 Embermaw Hellion -1 Inferno Fist.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:44 pm 
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I can relate to the point. From a general 'what is a good magic card' perspective Nissa just feels like she applied for the job , got it on pure credentials and past experience, and there you go. I find it a very valid point that green decks that play her as an inferior borderland ranger would be very right to consider to cut her.
The problem here is that in the current meta, besides a few fringe builds, I have a hard time imagining competitive decks that would only ever hope to see her as a borderland ranger. In most archetypes with green in it, currently, she does that job, then if you happen to draw her later, she is like a one sided howling mine with the potential to even end you the game for 3 mana 5 turns later.
I guess what i'm saying is that most cool builds I see with green in them don't mind a bad borderland ranger if said card also can be the closing bomb should they draw it really late. Maybe Simic AGGRO (phear) or selesnya renown decks shouldn't run her :p.

Thanks for your comments licker, I think it' s a very valid remark you made.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:42 pm 
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yalldaball wrote:
I can relate to the point. From a general 'what is a good magic card' perspective Nissa just feels like she applied for the job , got it on pure credentials and past experience, and there you go. I find it a very valid point that green decks that play her as an inferior borderland ranger would be very right to consider to cut her.
The problem here is that in the current meta, besides a few fringe builds, I have a hard time imagining competitive decks that would only ever hope to see her as a borderland ranger. In most archetypes with green in it, currently, she does that job, then if you happen to draw her later, she is like a one sided howling mine with the potential to even end you the game for 3 mana 5 turns later.
I guess what i'm saying is that most cool builds I see with green in them don't mind a bad borderland ranger if said card also can be the closing bomb should they draw it really late. Maybe Simic AGGRO (phear) or selesnya renown decks shouldn't run her :p.

Thanks for your comments licker, I think it' s a very valid remark you made.


Golgari Control. Enough said.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:35 am 
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Here is my Gruul Monsters decklist, I'll be writing more about it in the upcoming Duels Diaries week 6 (viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11105#p340598)

Most recent edit discussed in Duels Diaries week 8 (viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11289#p345564)

4 x Fiery Impulse
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
2 x Embermaw Hellion
2 x Outland Colossus
3 x Rhox Maulers
2 x Chandra's Ignition
7 x Mountain
10 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Gruul Guildgate

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Last edited by CovertGo Blue on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:48 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:19 am 
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This is exactly where I was trying to go with my list before I got caught up trying to slam Evo Leap into every single green list (that card is format-defining right now, a mini Survival of the Fittest, but I think you're right to lose it here). More burn helps hugely in some of the problematic matchups. Thanks for posting the list, now I can just steal yours instead of working on mine. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:38 pm 
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This is exactly where I was trying to go with my list before I got caught up trying to slam Evo Leap into every single green list (that card is format-defining right now, a mini Survival of the Fittest, but I think you're right to lose it here). More burn helps hugely in some of the problematic matchups. Thanks for posting the list, now I can just steal yours instead of working on mine. :)


I posted a reply to this saying I had Evo Leap in, but I thought this was about the Jund list, not the Gruul list. Too much forum posting for me today! Anyway, yeah, I don't think this is the Leap deck, it is much more about rolling a gigantic meaty monster snowball downhill on your foe, and it does a great job with that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:21 am 
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I have reached level 40 with the deck (on Steam) and I'm pretty happy about it. It's not by any means perfect but if he can stand up to the lucky aggro decks, his midgame is perfect.

2 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
4 x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Gaea's Revenge

6 x Mountain
11 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Gruul Guildgate

It was originally more creature-heavy but this was when you could have played with someone 10 or 20 levels lower. Nowadays I meet only the 35-40 range so removal is essential. I also didn't value at first the Acid-Moss, but man, it does its job like a pro...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:04 pm 
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I enjoy these kinds of land removal decks and am trying my own (below). However, I apparently am just a terrible player :) I barely crack 50% with this deck, is it about lacking Gaea's Revenge? Is Into the Maw of Hell not a good enough include? Do I just need to learn to play better :) Not a complete collection for me, so I'm trying the best I can...
ColorlessWhiteBlueBlackRedGreenAzoriusOrzhovBorosSelesnyaDimirIzzetSimicRakdosGolgariGruulEsperJeskaiBantMarduAbzanNayaGrixisSultaiTemurJundGreenlessRedlessBlacklessBluelessWhitelessRainbow

G/R Landkill

A deck for Magic Duels.

60 Cards. 39 nonlands (21 :creature:, 18 :instant:). 21 :land: (7 9 ; 5 other).

Color 14 cards
■■■■
Fiery Impulse
■■■■
Twin Bolt
■■■■
Akroan Sergeant2/2
■■
Kird Chieftain3/3
Chandra's Ignition
■■■
Into the Maw of Hell
Color 21 cards
■■■
Elvish Visionary1/1
■■■■
Gatecreeper Vine0/2
■■
Undercity Troll2/2
Nissa, Vastwood Seer2/2
■■
Reclamation Sage2/1
■■■■
Nissa's Pilgrimage
■■■
Wildsize
■■■■
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
■■
Outland Colossus6/6
■■
Zendikar's Roil
Colorless4 cards
■■■■
Perilous Myr1/1
Land21 cards
■■■
Gruul Guildgate
■■
Rootbound Crag
7
Mountain
9
Forest
"


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Not enough lands, for one. 21 is barely good for a aggro weenie deck. You need 23-24 lands.

The Maw is way too expensive to have three in a deck. You can replace it with a cheaper red removal and 90% of the time would be quite enough.


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