It is currently Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:39 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:47 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30, 2013
Posts: 7305
Location: England
Grixis Decklists


Black Cards


Blue Cards


Red Cards


Multi-Colour Cards


Colourless Cards


Non-Basic Lands

_________________
Welcome! I'm Garren and I'll be your designated villain for the evening.


Last edited by Garren_Windspear on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 12 times in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:38 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 08, 2015
Posts: 203
Identity: Male
Grixis Willbreaker
(Combo + Control)

1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Sigiled Starfish
1x Telling Time
3x Twin Bolt
4x Reave Soul

4x Bloodflow Connoisseur
2x Jorubai Murk Lurker
3x Act of Treason

4x Inspiration
2x Languish

2x Willbreaker
1x Embermaw Hellion

1x Displacement Wave

Lands (29)
4x Dimir Guildgate
4x Rakdos Guildgate
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Dragonskull Summit
2x Drowned Catacomb
6 Island
6 Swamp
5 Mountain

Mana sources:
14 = 90% blue on turn 1
18 = 90% Languish turn 4
13 = 90% r on turn 2

Manacurve
14-12-9-6-3-1

Main Engine cards: Willbreaker + Targeting effect
Twin Bolt can grab two guys for one card
Act of Treason can take guy and give it haste and not have to return it
Jorubai Murk Lurker can repeatedly take a guy every turn and helps with mana flooding

Note: Splashing black for more control over the board and a sac outlet for when Willbreaker isn’t online

_________________
Steam handle: Rattleclaw_mystic


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:20 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 09, 2013
Posts: 1231
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Don't you need some way to protect the Willbreaker? Maybe Disciple of the Ring for untap and another way to take creatures?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:11 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 08, 2015
Posts: 203
Identity: Male
Auunj wrote:
Don't you need some way to protect the Willbreaker? Maybe Disciple of the Ring for untap and another way to take creatures?


Hello Auuunj,

To answer your question I don’t think the counter spells are very good in this format. The best option to protect Willbreaker, in my opinion, would be Calculated Dismissal but there simply isn’t room for it in the curve. I also don’t like ‘protective spells’ in this build as I am looking to be more proactive with stealing / sac when Willbreaker isn’t online. The only way to squeeze counter support in would be to cut Jorubai Murk Lurker as Bloodflow Connoisseur and Act of Treason are too important to the overall strategy. Another problem with cutting Jorubai Murk Lurker is that it is effectively the same thing as Disciple of the Ring but better; it’s cheaper, comes down earlier, and provides lifelink which ideally would help you win against aggro decks as they simply can’t race you at that point.

Speaking of Disciple of the Ring, you could probably cut Embermaw Hellion for it without any issues. The reason I went with Embermaw Hellion is that it turns Twin Bolt into a 2 damage to 2 creatures for one card when you’re not looking to steal stuff (no Willbreaker), or you simply want to burn them out after attacking them with a stolen creature from Act of Treason. With that said including Disciple of the Ring over it might be better if not just for tapping down their second creature to swing in with the Act of Treason one. Really at this point it's hard to tell because I can't test the deck (I'm don't own any iOS devices)

Thank you for the feedback.

_________________
Steam handle: Rattleclaw_mystic


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:39 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 09, 2013
Posts: 1231
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Hey Rattleclaw :-)

Unluckily my Ipad 4 is not supported, so I don't have any way to test the theories either...
I really appreciate your analytical deck building approach and deck ideas!

I'm by no means an expert, but further theorycrafting:
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Disciple of the Ring's tap/untap another targeted ability which would combo nicely with Willbreaker?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:52 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 30, 2014
Posts: 208
i just don't think Willbreaker is reliable enough to base a whole deck around. especially without a whole lot to protect it, everything you build up with it could come crumbling down at any time.

i just made a post in the 4 color thread with my initial control list, but i'm still awaiting the steam version to be released so it's all in theory right now. after giving it some more thought, i refined it into a Grixis list that i also want to post. i'm going for a draw-go style control deck, so i am heavy on instants, which i think should be viable in the upcoming format, even if a more aggressive deck based on sorceries might have some better card options. we'll have to see. for now, this is it:

Grixis Control (60)

Land (24)
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Sulfur Falls
5 x Swamp
5 x Island
4 x Mountain

Finishers (6)
2 x Alhammarret, High Arbiter
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1 x Erebos's Titan

Creature Removal (7)
4 x Fiery Impulse
3 x Flesh to Dust

Sweepers (4)
2 x Languish
2 x Displacement Wave

Permission (4)
4 x Calculated Dismissal

Card Draw (8)
4 x Telling Time
4 x Inspiration

Utility (7)
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Fleshbag Marauder


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:26 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
Here's my take on Grixis control where mill is the primary win condition. I pack enough board control and counters to keep off what I need, and use Disciple of the Ring as a secondary wincon/extra control. Against aggro matchups (particularly mono red) this setup has had few problems, unless I face a mono white enchant deck that quickly gets out of most of the 4 damage reach (the reason I pack Disperse).

Grixis Mill/Control (60):

1 Mana -
4 x Fiery Impulse

2 Mana -
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Telling Time
2 x Disperse
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Reave Soul

3 Mana -
2 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

4 Mana -
3 x Inspitation
4 x Countermand
4 x Bone to Ash
2 x Languish

5 Mana -
1 x Disciple of the Ring

Land -
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Drowned Catacombs
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
6 x Island
5 x Swamp
4 x Mountain

Mana Curve:
4 - 14 - 3 - 13 - 1


The lack of answers to big creatures in this format is simple. There's basically none. Woodland Bellower,Outland Colossus and Kothophed all take too long to hit the board for me to not have a counter spell ready or a double spell masteried Fiery Impulse/ Fiery Impulse + Exquisite Firecraft. I'm assuming the WotC will be adding more "big stuff" with the Battle for Zendikar expansion once released, because atm there's nothing common or big enough in the toughness department to counter this deck. There's plenty of high power, but not much with above 4 toughness to worry about.

I'd like to add Perilous Myr in here somewhere, but I haven't found it's presence needed with all of the early removal available. Jace does feel like a dead card a lot of the time and might be better off in a specific mill deck, but his +1 has saved me on occasion. Lastly, I take Telling Time over Read the Bones as it essentially gives you the same card draw (top of library is good enough 90% of the time), it's instant speed, I don't lose 2 life and I can still dump 1 dud card when looking 3 cards deep.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:05 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 7344
Location: Newfoundland
Into the Maw of Hell kills just about everything in the format, even a Renowned Colossus. Plus it hits problematic lands like Rogue's Passage or the Foundry. You should be able to play a copy in most red control lists.

_________________
Check me out on YouTube


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:42 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
Hakeem928 wrote:
Into the Maw of Hell kills just about everything in the format, even a Renowned Colossus. Plus it hits problematic lands like Rogue's Passage or the Foundry. You should be able to play a copy in most red control lists.


Suggestions to replace? I'm thinking -1 Jace and + 1 Maw of Hell? I still don't feel like Jace belongs and he either dies when he hits the board, forced to block potentially lethal or gets stuck +1 before he hits ult or a decent -3. Maw doesn't strike me as a multiple of but could come in handy like you said.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:51 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 7344
Location: Newfoundland
I can't offer suggestions yet, I'm working on the game right now. I was just pointing out that one copy of Into the Maw would be something to think about during your testing.

I am always interested in Grixis Control "just because" so expect me to try and build one soonish. We can share ideas then.

_________________
Check me out on YouTube


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:01 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
Hakeem928 wrote:
I can't offer suggestions yet, I'm working on the game right now. I was just pointing out that one copy of Into the Maw would be something to think about during your testing.

I am always interested in Grixis Control "just because" so expect me to try and build one soonish. We can share ideas then.


The mill primary wincon seems the most consistent to me (weird :confused:) even if it results in most rage quitting when they hit 20 cards, but I look forward to seeing what others can come up with. I like the (semi) creatureless approach.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:24 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 09, 2013
Posts: 1231
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Any thoughts on Grixis Thopters? It seems very strong thanks to value creatures, chumps, evasion and a lot of black control.

After playing Izzet Thopters and Rakdos/Golgari Control I decided to mix them up, so I used:

UndeadWildChild's Izzet Thopter core:
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Thopter Engineer
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Foundry of the Consuls

CovertGo Blue's black control recursion:
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Gravedigger
3 x Cruel Revival

That's 26 cards, I added:
3 x Bone Splinters
4 x Act of Treason
3 x Nantuko Husk
22 x Land

So the game plan is thopters of course, with a lot of added removal and a steal/sac subtheme. I dropped the red removals from the Izzet deck due to stronger black removal. Thopters are great for pumping Nantuko Husk and as disposable targets for Bone Splinters. A pumped Nantuko can be made unblockable with Whirler Rogue. I'm also testing replacing 3x Chief of the Foundry with 3x Read the Bones.

The 2nd route I'm testing is dropping the Cruel Revivals and Gravediggers for the sac/ETB route with something like this:

UndeadWildChild's Izzet Thopter core:
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Thopter Engineer
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Foundry of the Consuls

and added:
4 x Bone Splinters
3 x Twinbolt
2 x Willbreaker

3 x Nantuko Husk
3 x Read the Bones
4 x Act of Treason
3 x Rise from the Grave
22 x Land

The sac/etb plan allows to generate more thopters much quicker and makes it easier for the deck to come back from Chandra's Ignition or Languish. I'm testing Artificer's Epiphany as Thopter Spy Network is extremely slow and as a 2-of isn't reliable and I hate to top deck.

Any comments or suggestions?


Last edited by Auunj on Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:22 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 668
Bounceburnbuff- I think creatureless mill has the potential to be strong in this format, and Grixis seems like an obvious choice. The problem with slow win conditions is that it guarantees you will see everything your opponent has, and even if you can answer 95% of their deck that 5% you can't answer can kill you.

Gaea's revenge is a problem for your deck. I am not sure how often we will see it. I would expect Grixis to perform maybe a bit better than Jeskai against creatures, but it has very few answers to resolved artifacts enchantments (disperse x2 PLUS countermand x4), and white does better vs. Revenge.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:37 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Posts: 657
Location: Canada
Both jeskai and grixis have answers to gaea's revenge with celestial flare and fleshbag marauder. Jeskai wins out only due to tragic arrogance being better than languish in that scenario. From what have seen from the last 2 days on the ladder is no one has played gaea's revenge though. Most are going for 2-5 cmc drops very few people have played bombs at six mana or higher Kothophed, Soul Hoarder and Alhammerret, High Arbiter have only shown up about 2 times each. If this trend continues (personal experience only not sure what others are running into) I wouldn't worry about bombs too much atm and might even change my decks a bit if the meta remains this way.

_________________
www.twitch.tv/pro_m0de/


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:36 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
HenWen wrote:
Bounceburnbuff- I think creatureless mill has the potential to be strong in this format, and Grixis seems like an obvious choice. The problem with slow win conditions is that it guarantees you will see everything your opponent has, and even if you can answer 95% of their deck that 5% you can't answer can kill you.

Gaea's revenge is a problem for your deck. I am not sure how often we will see it. I would expect Grixis to perform maybe a bit better than Jeskai against creatures, but it has very few answers to resolved artifacts enchantments (disperse x2 PLUS countermand x4), and white does better vs. Revenge.


I've only faced 1 resolved Gaea's so far, the mill can see to the sufficient disruption (and counterspells for relevant fetch spells) and there was an answer already on the board. I was down to 7 life and he swung his hasted Gaea right into Disciple of The Ring, and since I couldn't spend my mana on a counter spell due to Gaea's text, I pumped five into Disciple to make it 8/9. This is why Disciple is such fantastic value as apart from Kothophed, she can be pumped with the entirety of your deck if needs be. If the board is clear and the win is obvious (or you suspect no Gaea's) then swing away, but it's better to stay untapped and act as a response. I've since ditched Maw of Hell as this didn't answer Gaea's and that's the main "big bad" I can see being an issue.

I have already faced a good counter deck, and constructed it myself. Specifically a playset of (forget the name) that 3 mana 3/1 black elf who forces you to discard. Leave it and that's 3 damage a turn, kill it and you waste 2 cards. Multiple of these would cripple you enough early, and the re animator strategy/resolved Evolutionary Leap also counters this well. Erebos's titan also plays hell with you since lacking creatures makes him automatically indestructible. So I'm aware that non-elf Golgari decks are the flat counter to control, but atm the elf variant/aura/aggro and thoptor decks are far more common and easy to deal with.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:43 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
binderato wrote:
Both jeskai and grixis have answers to gaea's revenge with celestial flare and fleshbag marauder. Jeskai wins out only due to tragic arrogance being better than languish in that scenario. From what have seen from the last 2 days on the ladder is no one has played gaea's revenge though. Most are going for 2-5 cmc drops very few people have played bombs at six mana or higher Kothophed, Soul Hoarder and Alhammerret, High Arbiter have only shown up about 2 times each. If this trend continues (personal experience only not sure what others are running into) I wouldn't worry about bombs too much atm and might even change my decks a bit if the meta remains this way.


Agreed. Jeskai works better vs higher cc cards. My Jeskai deck is literally the same as Grixis build here, just switching the black cards for white. It's not just your experience, truth is atm the rock>paper>scissors is working well. Aggro is common enough and fast enough to keep Golgari/re animator/combo decks down whilst being easy for control to handle, but once aggro starts to drop off we will see decks that are harder for mine to deal with. I already gave some good examples above (3/1 black elf, Erebos Titan, Gaea's Revenge, Evolutionary Leap) but for the moment Disperseis here to deal with them. If the problem persists I will drop some early burn for a full playset of Disperse.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:04 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 09, 2015
Posts: 244
Here's my take on Grixis control where mill is the primary win condition. I pack enough board control and counters to keep off what I need, and use Disciple of the Ring as a secondary wincon/extra control. Against aggro matchups (particularly mono red) this setup has had few problems, unless I face a mono white enchant deck that quickly gets out of most of the 4 damage reach (the reason I pack Disperse).

Grixis Mill/Control (60):

1 Mana -
4 x Fiery Impulse

2 Mana -
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Telling Time
2 x Disperse
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Reave Soul

3 Mana -
2 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

4 Mana -
3 x Inspitation
4 x Countermand
4 x Bone to Ash
2 x Languish

5 Mana -
1 x Disciple of the Ring

Land -
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Drowned Catacombs
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
6 x Island
5 x Swamp
4 x Mountain

Mana Curve:
4 - 14 - 3 - 13 - 1


The lack of answers to big creatures in this format is simple. There's basically none. Woodland Bellower,Outland Colossus and Kothophed all take too long to hit the board for me to not have a counter spell ready or a double spell masteried Fiery Impulse/ Fiery Impulse + Exquisite Firecraft. I'm assuming the WotC will be adding more "big stuff" with the Battle for Zendikar expansion once released, because atm there's nothing common or big enough in the toughness department to counter this deck. There's plenty of high power, but not much with above 4 toughness to worry about.

I'd like to add Perilous Myr in here somewhere, but I haven't found it's presence needed with all of the early removal available. Jace does feel like a dead card a lot of the time and might be better off in a specific mill deck, but his +1 has saved me on occasion. Lastly, I take Telling Time over Read the Bones as it essentially gives you the same card draw (top of library is good enough 90% of the time), it's instant speed, I don't lose 2 life and I can still dump 1 dud card when looking 3 cards deep.


I made my deck very similiar but cut Exquisite Firecraft due to double red and added Fleshbag Marauder as a better out to stuff this deck cant deal with and it works pretty good since it's a sacrifice effect and board generally clear anyways. So, -1 Jace -2 Firecrafts +3 Fleshbags. Btw Erebos Titan is a huge silver bullet due to the "invulnerable due to no creatures" clause.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:45 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4365
Here's my take on Grixis control where mill is the primary win condition. I pack enough board control and counters to keep off what I need, and use Disciple of the Ring as a secondary wincon/extra control. Against aggro matchups (particularly mono red) this setup has had few problems, unless I face a mono white enchant deck that quickly gets out of most of the 4 damage reach (the reason I pack Disperse).

Grixis Mill/Control (60):

1 Mana -
4 x Fiery Impulse

2 Mana -
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Telling Time
2 x Disperse
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Reave Soul

3 Mana -
2 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

4 Mana -
3 x Inspitation
4 x Countermand
4 x Bone to Ash
2 x Languish

5 Mana -
1 x Disciple of the Ring

Land -
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Drowned Catacombs
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
6 x Island
5 x Swamp
4 x Mountain

Mana Curve:
4 - 14 - 3 - 13 - 1


The lack of answers to big creatures in this format is simple. There's basically none. Woodland Bellower,Outland Colossus and Kothophed all take too long to hit the board for me to not have a counter spell ready or a double spell masteried Fiery Impulse/ Fiery Impulse + Exquisite Firecraft. I'm assuming the WotC will be adding more "big stuff" with the Battle for Zendikar expansion once released, because atm there's nothing common or big enough in the toughness department to counter this deck. There's plenty of high power, but not much with above 4 toughness to worry about.

I'd like to add Perilous Myr in here somewhere, but I haven't found it's presence needed with all of the early removal available. Jace does feel like a dead card a lot of the time and might be better off in a specific mill deck, but his +1 has saved me on occasion. Lastly, I take Telling Time over Read the Bones as it essentially gives you the same card draw (top of library is good enough 90% of the time), it's instant speed, I don't lose 2 life and I can still dump 1 dud card when looking 3 cards deep.


I made my deck very similiar but cut Exquisite Firecraft due to double red and added Fleshbag Marauder as a better out to stuff this deck cant deal with and it works pretty good since it's a sacrifice effect and board generally clear anyways. So, -1 Jace -2 Firecrafts +3 Fleshbags. Btw Erebos Titan is a huge silver bullet due to the "invulnerable due to no creatures" clause.


Agreed, Titan has been the bane of my games more than Gaea's has. Gaea and Titan can both be dealt with by a resolved/pumped Disciple of The Ring, but that is rare.

I'll make said changes, the Marauders don't need to live themselves and Jace has been an under performer in my experience. I'll get back to you on how it works out.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:55 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 09, 2015
Posts: 244
Happy bonus is Marauders dont feel like a creature to me, but just yet another removal so still on the "creatureless" theme


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:11 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 668
Right now I think my best deck is grixis (nearly) creatureless control. I am still at a low rank and I haven't seen the need for disperse yet, although I imagine it will become important later on. I still don't have a single copy of tutelage but I have 2x al hammie and he is an excellent finisher with built in protection. Disciple of the Ring is in the deck as well. Between the three of them I can close down games at a reasonable rate online.

Fleshbag marauder can be great sometimes, but I think Claustrophobia would work better in the same slot. The only real advantage of fleshbag is vs. Gaea's Revenge. Claustrophobia deals with Erebos' titan more reliably. If I end up seeing different matchups as I ascend the ranks I may need to change this.

Ultimately I still want to go Jeskai. I like the 2 mana white edict, and I like tragic arrogance, better than their black equivalents. What really puts jeskai over the edge for me is solemn offering. Lifegain and enchantment hate in one package are excellent.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group