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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:48 pm 
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Jund Decklists


Black Cards


Green Cards


Red Cards


Multi-Colour Cards


Colourless Cards


Non-Basic Lands

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:21 am 
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4 x Bone Splinters
3 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Fiery Conclusion
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Erebos's Titan
2 x Kird Chieftain
2 x Flameshadow Conjuring
2 x Languish
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Outland Colossus
1 x Woodland Bellower

22 Creatures / 14 Non Creature Spells / 24 Land
16 Black / 16 Green / 10 Red

2 x Rakdos Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit

5 x Swamp
5 x Forest
2 x Mountain

The following deck revolves around using cheap monsters early and making copies with Flameshadow Conjuring abusing the etb of cards like elvish visionary and gatecreeper vine netting you a double draw or land fix then sacrificing the token with evolutionary leap post combat phase for non defenders. Other combos later are 7 mana woodland bellower giving you two fleshbag marauder which u can abuse for a 4 x sac vs an opponent for 8 mana or more realistically 2 x 4 mana over the course of 2 turns. Getting to a high mana count is difficult which is why I put in the visionaries + gatecreepers in the early game. You can also summon a token with flameshadow conjuring and sac it with bone splinters. Let me know what adjustments you think that I should make.

Edit: Took out both ravaging blaze for 2 x fiery conclusion as per spencers suggestion. Replaced 2 x Zendikar Incarnate with 2 x kird chieftain

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Last edited by binderato on Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Add some steal spells to sac for Evolutionary Leap ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:09 pm 
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This deck looks great. Have you been able to test it yet?

I get the feeling Ravaging Blaze will under perform here. 4 mana to deal 2 damage, 5 mana to deal 3, 6 mana to deal 4. I don't really accept that ratio until you hit 6 mana. If it's a spell that you don't want to play before 6-8 mana, then it takes up a slot that could be a better spell like Priest of the Blood Rite or Gaea's Revenge or something.

If you want a card that can be used early game for tempo plays in that slot, cards like Exquisite Firecraft, Fiery Conclusion, or Fiery impulse would probably serve you better.

I doubt you need 16 green sources in your manabase. You could easily swap a gate for a swamp or mountain. I would also replace some guildgates with evolving wilds. The wilds make it a lot easier to get your check lands into play untapped when you need them to. Rogue's Passage would be pretty good here too if you can afford one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:30 pm 
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I wouldn't add the sac spells to this deck since they would take up valuable slots themselves, then I would need to add sac outlets on top of that since 2 x evolutionary leap is not enough.

I haven't had a chance to test the deck yet as I am waiting for the steam release. I agree with your points on ravaging blaze. The reason I have the gates is to keep gatecreeper vine viable. Especially if I double him up with flameshadow conjuring.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:55 pm 
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Gatecreeper can also fetch basic lands.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:03 pm 
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True but I feel he has more value if I fetch a gate instead. I will play around with the mana base once I get the game for pc. :( just have to theorycraft until I can get my hands on the game and see how the base plays out and needs to be adjusted. You have given me good advice for all my decks so far, so I am not doubting you. Just need some time to see how things unfold on my own when it comes to the mana.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:24 pm 
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I don't really want to be argumentative, but I'm having fun theorycrafting here. I hope you don't mind.

Let's say you have Flameshadow Conjuring in play and it gets you double Gatecreepers. That means you already have one green source and one red source in play, and you have double coloured sources already for either green or red. (Or already have double black, which is even better). It's extremely likely you have more colours--or double green and double red--in play, but let's consider the worst case scenario here.

If you find one gate of the first gatecreeper you're up to double coloured sources in 2 colours, and a single coloured source in your final colour. The second Gatecreeper can find you a basic land and you've got double coloured sources now in all three of your colours. Even in the worst case scenario, two gates are all you need to run and your double gatecreeper will completely fix your mana every single time. From that point on it's almost always more efficient to get basics with your Gatecreepers so you can spend more total mana per turn.

Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that you should only run 2 gates, because I haven't looked that closely yet. All I'm sayingis that you could run a minimum of 2 gates and not have any trouble with your gatecreepers fixing mana from Flameshadow Conjuring. You should probably run 1 of each gate.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:14 pm 
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I value the input you guys give me and I am open to criticism. I am certainly not the best player out there which is why I come here for advice and you have provided stellar advice so far :D. My only concern with dropping the gates is it takes the number of playable hands down a tad bit. I am not always guaranteed to draw one of my six gates or six taplands or my 4 gatecreepers but I do have a very high chance of drawing one or the other. Which is why I would prefer to keep both, you do make a good point about basic lands and open mana being more valuable as they allow me to play cards right away and allow me to use my other taplands right away as well. I will let you know how the testing goes once I get steam. I am completely open to theorycrafting up until then since it is all we can really do. I just can't see myself making mana adjustments until I have tested how good my opening hands are and how often I can get the flameshadow + gatecreeper combo off for a full mana fix.

Edit: My main reason for keeping them all is we don't have a super mana fixer like cultivate in the game. If this was a 2 colour deck I probably would have dropped the gates down in number based on your points already. The 3 colours has me hesitant to reduce my mana fixing until I can test and see if I can get by without nigh maximum fixing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:24 am 
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binderato wrote:
4 x Bone Splinters
3 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Fiery Conclusion
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Erebos's Titan
2 x Kird Chieftain
2 x Flameshadow Conjuring
2 x Languish
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Outland Colossus
1 x Woodland Bellower

22 Creatures / 14 Non Creature Spells / 24 Land
16 Black / 16 Green / 10 Red

2 x Rakdos Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit

5 x Swamp
5 x Forest
2 x Mountain

The following deck revolves around using cheap monsters early and making copies with Flameshadow Conjuring abusing the etb of cards like elvish visionary and gatecreeper vine netting you a double draw or land fix then sacrificing the token with evolutionary leap post combat phase for non defenders. Other combos later are 7 mana woodland bellower giving you two fleshbag marauder which u can abuse for a 4 x sac vs an opponent for 8 mana or more realistically 2 x 4 mana over the course of 2 turns. Getting to a high mana count is difficult which is why I put in the visionaries + gatecreepers in the early game. You can also summon a token with flameshadow conjuring and sac it with bone splinters. Let me know what adjustments you think that I should make.

Edit: Took out both ravaging blaze for 2 x fiery conclusion as per spencers suggestion. Replaced 2 x Zendikar Incarnate with 2 x kird chieftain


What a cool looking Jund deck! I totally missed Flameshadow Conjuring but now I'm planning to run it too :) Also, Gatecreeper Vine looks sweeet!

But why Kird Chieftain instead of Zendikar Incarnate? I mean, Kird's 4/4 at maximum and Incarnate's 4/4 at minimum, or am I missing something here?

Also, Graveblade Marauder might be a fun card to try - excepth the Deathtouch, he's 1/4 (which puts him outside of most removal) and will hit like a track with all the saccing going on :)

What's your thoughts on Nightfire Giant? 5/4 for 5, great late game when mana flooded. Also, how about Nissa's Pilgrimage or Animist's Awakening for ramp? I'd also include some black removal like Reave Soul or Cruel Revival, for the consistency.

Will brew my build later on, probably based on the synergies you've found :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:28 am 
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The Reason I swapped out the zendikar incarnate was to give trample to my outland collosus/woodland bellower/erebos's titan with kird chieftain and it would give me something to do with my mana once I started topdecking. I hadn't noticed nightfire giant but he might be a better fit than kird chieftain as he can be used as removal to. The reason I didn't include ramp was I have a decent amount of fixing with gatecreeper and some decent draw with visionary + I need more creatures than spells to use bone splinters and fiery conclusion easily. The low cost removal means that I can play other threats on the same turn without tapping out 5 mana for a cruel revival. That was my thought process at least I don't know if the deck will turn out that way. Let me know if you have any more ideas on what to change. Nightfire Giant was a cool suggestion :D.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:44 pm 
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Not sure how you plan to be getting Fleshbag Marauders with the Woodland Bellower.
Cool looking list, tho.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:30 am 
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Not sure how you plan to be getting Fleshbag Marauders with the Woodland Bellower.
Cool looking list, tho.


Huh, good find :) Didn't notice it either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:02 am 
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Jund elves anyone? I don't love black for the list, but Shaman of the Pack is likely why you run elves in the first place. I figure elves might be interesting with Flameshadow Conjuring to help take advantage of elves with ETBs. Who doesn't enjoy the idea of slamming two Shamans on the field together?

A few open slots left, but:
24-25 lands

Creatures:
4 Gatecreeper Vine*
1 Gravedigger*

3 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
1+ Jagged-Scar Archers
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Reclamation Sage*
3 Shaman of the Pack
3 Llanowar Empath*
4 Lys Alana Huntmaster*

1 Woodland Bellower

Noncreatures:
2 Flameshadow Conjuring

That puts the list at 28 spells leaving 7-8 open slots after including lands. At the moment I'm thinking some burn (Fiery Impulse, Exquisite Firecraft, even a single copy of Blazing Hellhound) and maybe Nissa's Pilgrimage to push out some extra lands quickly in case of landing an early Flameshadow Conjuring, Really wouldn't mind seeing a couple more elves though (more Jagged-Scar Archers, or possibly even Yeva's Forcemage) EDIT: Gilt-Leaf Winnower too if it is really solid. EDIT-EDIT: I also forgot about Read the Bones. Gather the Pack too, but I'd like to be able to find Conjuring instead of binning it should it become a major role player. Oh how I wish we had Commune with the Gods.

In short, 7-9* slots:
+2-4 Fiery Impulse EDIT: Bone Splinters?
+2 Exquisite Firecraft
+0 or 2-4 Nissa's Pilgrimage EDIT: Read the Bones?

+0-1 Blazing Hellhound
+1-2 Jagged-Scar Archers
+0 or 2-4 Yeva's Forcemage

****
Gatecreeper Vine - I'd love to shave down on these to fill out elves, but dabbling in three color or even two in some cases requires these guys.

Gravedigger - Non-elf, but an okay ETB I feel to get back an elf (yay Shaman of the Pack) and sweet if you can copy the ability. Yet, possible cut in the long run.

Reclamation Sage - Mostly sideboard material in a game without sideboards. It's slot depends on if it gets targets or not, but it might be okay to have just in case.

Llanowar Empath - Sort of like our Sylvan Messenger. Heh, sure, but I actually like the ability. Scry is a useful ability, and copying this seems sweet.

Lys Alana Huntmaster - Posted down here because I want to make sure we know it doesn't interact 100% perfectly with Flameshadow Conjuring since the elf requires another casted elf card. Still, it's one of the more solid ways to fill the board for Shaman of the Pack.

EDITS: Slight card additions were addressed. I'm likely missing a few other smart choices.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:32 am 
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If you're playing Flameshadow Conjuring in black, you should be looking hard at Fleshbag Marauder (especially since you have Gatecreeper Vines to sacrifice). Eyeblight Assassin is an Elf and another decent Conjuring target.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:10 am 
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I also like conjuring but I'm not sure about this build. I mean Elves aren't looking like the fastest aggro deck anyways, but you still want to be dropping an elf every turn when possible: double Shaman is nice, but it doesn't matter how many times you drop it if there aren't any elves on the board, and adding concessions like Gatecreeper to get red mana so you can potentially play a card you only have two of with no tutoring is suspect - I don't think this has the consistency of Golgari.

It'll be hella fun if you get a decent combo off but I wouldn't run this if I was laddering.

Don't even think about Firecraft, that 2R is not doing you any favours and isn't worth the investment in your mana base. Splinters are fine and Read the Bones is the best draw in the game, I'd run at least 2.

23 Lands is fine with this build BTW. If you ignore Bellower your curve tops out at 4.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:41 am 
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Well, I mean, even if you had no other elves that's 4 life lost and a 3/2 haste you aren't going to miss, which isn't exactly what you'd call bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Thanks for the input everyone. I knew I forgot some stuff like Fleshbag Marauder. Couldn't sleep and was in a bit of a tunnel vision mode.

Original vision was RG elves, but black splash for Shaman of the Pack. Since I felt Golgari Elves we're playing out a tad on the slower side, almost midrange-like, I thought getting red to add something like Exquisite Firecraft as extra reach could help aid the Shamans. Thinking back on it though, black removal can go far and generally hits a large number of targets. Almost anything really if you can fuel Bone Splinters or time Fleshbag Marauders just right.

So certainly I think the consistency of Golgari is strong, and Might of the Masses can act as decent reach once wide enough. However, it's not always interesting to me so I'm still going to try Flameshadow Conjuring for the concept of fun. If it's turns out jank I'll pack it up and play something more consistent after a while.

Revised List:
Lands:
24 Something I wouldn't mind getting help with

Creatures:
4 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Gravedigger
1 Woodland Bellower

3 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Jagged-Scar Archers
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Shaman of the Pack
3 Llanowar Empath
4 Lys Alana Huntmaster

Noncreatures:
2 Bone Splinters
1 Might of the Masses
2 Read the Bones
2 Flameshadow Conjuring

I guess this is kind of where I ended up for initial testing. Red is now purely for Flameshadow Conjuring, which is a bit sad. If it clearly underperforms, it's super easy to dump the concept and transition back to simple Golgari Elves.

Settled with 24 lands since the ball doesn't start rolling until turns 4+. Gatecreepers and scry should help on the land front a bit. No double colored costs outside of green at the moment.

Interested in testing Evolutionary Leap, but I want to see where Flameshadow Conjuring testing heads first. Also, tempted to reduce the elf focus and swap to more ETBs. However, a quick glance shows its mostly elves that offered a number of ETB effects in the first place and that red didn't seem too impressive on that front unless I underestimate copying the handful of thopter guys. I could maximize scry with Llanowar Empath and find room for Gilt-Leaf Winnower and Priest of the Blood Rite, but the deck could be running into a dead end if it doesn't work out from here as the options are growing thin.

Maybe I'll begin looking into Temur colors.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Not sure how you plan to be getting Fleshbag Marauders with the Woodland Bellower.
Cool looking list, tho.


Nice find. I read it as any 3cmc instead of 3cmc + green, this is the problem with not having the game and having poor reading comprehension on my part. Glad you like the list.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:43 pm 
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Given the amount of powerful artifacts and enchantments in this format, artifact and enchantment removal belongs in any grndy/midrange/control strategy. Even aggro decks often run artifacts to kill. I'd probably try to work in a single Reclamation Sage to your deck Binderato; it actually gives you 2 chances to draw your destruction card counting Bellower.

Considering you have ways to abuse ETB triggers with Flameshadow Conjuring, 0 creature with flying or reach, and a ton of sacrifice effects in the deck, I would expect Priest of the Blood Rite to outperform just about any 5 drop. It's 7/7 worth of stats for 5 mana, which is a ridiculour ratio by itself, and it has syngery with everything you're trying to do in the deck. I'm surprised not to see it here.


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