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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:14 am 
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Some careful analysis going on here. I spent a good amount of time on the one rainbow deck I played extensively in Duels 2015, but trilands made it much easier to run a janky manabase there.

Superfriends is an archetype that I just loathe. It seems to take so little effort to throw a bunch of mythic rares into a deck together. I have not unlocked most of the expansion cards so I play online with Origins era decklists... which really cannot compete well here.

Just curious - what sort of deck type is superfriends weakest against?


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:45 am 
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Super friends does not really have a terrible match-ups against any deck.
That being said, I personally hate piloting it against blue-based control decks. You have to spend some resources for the fixing early, and the counterspells can lock you out of your card advantage while you can't stop theirs. I'd guess it's one of the weakest match-ups.

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:20 am 
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Superfriends is weak to counterspells (it has big but expensive payoffs and no instant speed game), burn (it has no counterspells of its own) and in many cases, fliers - although that can be built around.

I think most of the challenge with superfriends is the mana base - it certainly took me twice as long to build as the rest of the deck.

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If I ever built an Esper Control deck, it would still somehow contain 2x Sylvan Advocate, 2x Tireless Tracker, 1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer, 1x Reclamation Sage, 1x Nissa, Vital Force, and 1x Woodland Bellower.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:28 pm 
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Superfriends will do bad against vampire red black I think. or black white. Anguished Unmaking really is devastating if you have 2 or 3 creatures and superfriends wants to put down weenie blockers like white 2/2s and green 0/1s

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Sure, although there's no reason you need to play a lot of weenie blockers. As an alternative, here's a list tuned to fight Sylvan Advocates / Thought-Knot Seers / Reality Smashers:

Super Friends V3.0 ()
(Midrange)

Threats
2x Sylvan Advocate
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer/Nissa, Sage Animist
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2x Woodland Wanderer
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Arlinn Kord/Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon
1x Archangel Avacyn/Avacyn, the Purifier
2x Outland Colossus
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Removal
2x Oath of Chandra
2x Declaration in Stone
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Planar Outburst
2x Chandra's Ignition

Mana Fixing
2x Oath of Nissa
4x Sylvan Ranger

Lands (26)
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
6x Forest
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Shambling Vent
1x Cinder Glade
2x Rootbound Crag
2x Clifftop Retreat
1x Dragonskull Summit
2x Sunpetal Grove


This deck commonly draws "full house" hands; Elves full of 6/6s. One might affectionately term it "Six Power Flower Hour". Or one might not. I'm not the boss of you.

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If I ever built an Esper Control deck, it would still somehow contain 2x Sylvan Advocate, 2x Tireless Tracker, 1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer, 1x Reclamation Sage, 1x Nissa, Vital Force, and 1x Woodland Bellower.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:07 am 
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Another one besides Abzan that I was leaving for the last minute is 4cPW

I started with the first version Covert posted in his blog, but it was a bit unpolished...I mean, like 18 G sources and no Spires, but Quagmires and other oddities, so I tried to redo it, with some input from the games I have played against it, which gave me a rough idea about the best cards to include

I landed at this, after a bit of tunning...be gentle :P , I'm still a noob with this deck...so sugesstions will be apreciated

3 x Sylvan Ranger
2 x Sylvan Advocate
2 x Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
2 x Oath of Chandra
2 x Declaration in Stone

1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Call the Gatewatch
1 x Wild-Field Scarecrow
1 x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 x Devour in Flames

1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 x Arlinn Kord
1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 x Languish

1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 x Planar Outburst

1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa

2 x Plains
2 x Swamp
2 x Mountain
2 x Forest

2 x Needle Spires
2 x Shambling Vent
1 x Hissing Quagmire

2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Woodland Cemetery
1 x Sunpetal Grove
4 x Evolving Wilds


Points of note: I prefer to play with just 3 Rangers and one Scarecrow...slower fixing but leaves your mana ok, and the big butt is relevant to survive those 5-6 turns you need to really start rolling...good food for Ayli if you don't need the mana...also, I hate those hands/first turns with 3 Rangers, which tends to happen a lot

Ayli is really good for that purpose too, as blocker and as lifegain provider

Call the Gatewatch, I like just one...that way, the dissmissing returns problem and the tempo loss are minimized...I really find useful the tutoring...for example, against early Fevered Mill, having 2 Nahiris is certainly helpful, and I don't play any Sages...even having a the Bellower

I like pressure instead of defense to help me get time till I reach critical mass...that's why I pack menaces: Kaly, Avy, Woody and...errr, Belly? Besides the standar Advocates and Trackers, of course...temped to add Linvala too, but probably overkill at the 6 CC. All them add a lot of value to Nihiri, of course.

One copy of Devour in Flames is nice against oppossing PWs, above all...and some dangerous critters, and marginally combs with Trackers.

Talking about sweepers, no R Flames for me... Languish is useful against Stands, and most of my creatures go past it. And Outburst, besides being the best stabilizer pre-PWs, they alone can win games with Spires/Vents, if not taken care, Advocates or not, fast.

No Oath of Nissa, found it a bit dissapointing in actual play. Nor Lily, hard to flip.

Mana has less green than usual, but quite a bit more for the other colors, after being manascrewed several times with more G-heavy bases...the 3 rangers/1 scarecrow thing again helps. 26 lands + 4 mana fix dorks seems enough for the moment, with that mana configuration.
I have a somewhat difficult t3 Nissa, but that's it...just one card, while the rest get way better chances.

Still 14 G sources, more than enough for early rangers/advocates. 13 B, 13 W and 12 R sources...pretty spot on when you add the fixing dorks...took me a while to nail it :P


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:34 pm 
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Oath of Chandra just doesn't make the cut for me. I would out oath of Nissa in its place. Fixes the mana 6-7 cards every game. Can dig for lands or PWs. This may be the first list to not auto-include it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Oath of Chandra just doesn't make the cut for me. I would out oath of Nissa in its place. Fixes the mana 6-7 cards every game. Can dig for lands or PWs. This may be the first list to not auto-include it.


I'm a true pioneer!! :king:

No wait, just in this thread there is another...ntch...another shattered dream...

Ok, surely you are right...it's just that in a couple of games, it buried my somewhat needed DS or AU...and that made me be wary


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:50 am 
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It just occurred to me that I have never posted my version of PW.dec.

Creatures (20):
2 x Sylvan Advocate
4 x Sylvan Ranger

1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Matter Reshaper

2 x Woodland Wanderer
2 x Thought-Knot Seer

1 x Archangel Avacyn
2 x Reality Smasher

1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa

Planeswalkers (5):
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 x Arlinn Kord

1 x Chandra, Flamecaller
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Other non-creature spells (10):
2 x Oath of Nissa

2 x Declaration In Stone

2 x Radiant Flames
2 x Anguished Unmaking

2 x Planar Outburst

Lands (25):
2 x Plains
1 x Swamp
1 x Mountain
2 x Forest
1 x Wastes
2 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Clifftop Retreat
4 x Evolving Wilds


The list is pretty similar to Zerris' earlier versions of the deck, indeed it basically came up after the discussion which colour(s) to cut for a colourless splash and which colour should be emphasized on (besides Green, obviously).
I decided to cut Black except for a light splash for Sorin and Anguished Unmaking (as well as the Converge cards) and to emphasize on White, and so far that has been working out.
The manabase gives us 16 G (slightly above 22 for double G), slightly above 17 W (19 for Gideon), slightly above 16 R (it's not quite 18 for Chandra because we're not running double Mountain) and slightly above 12 C and B. I could maybe cut a Cinder Glade for the second Mountain, but G is so important to the deck that I think I want to increase G consistency more than anything else.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:16 am 
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Having lots of fun and success running this build. Lots of answers for different situations.

Zerris wrote:

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Lack of Oath of Gideon is :(


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:36 pm 
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It's sad, sure - but Oath also puts on very little pressure by itself. This isn't a control deck, it's a midrange deck using Walkers as efficient threats. I don't want a card in the deck that does not individually demand removal (once I've fixed my mana). We're here to attack, not chump block.

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If I ever built an Esper Control deck, it would still somehow contain 2x Sylvan Advocate, 2x Tireless Tracker, 1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer, 1x Reclamation Sage, 1x Nissa, Vital Force, and 1x Woodland Bellower.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:10 pm 
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Not tested against live players yet. Was wondering if you guys can help with the deck. Its a Super Friends Enchantment deck.
PS dont know how to link


Enchantments
2 Oath of Nissa
2 Oath of Chandra
2 Oath of Gideon
3 Retreat to Kazanda
2 Fevered Vision
1 From Beyond
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Creatures
2 Herald of the Pantheon
1 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells
2 Radiant Flames
4 Brilliant Spectrum
1 Languish
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Planar Outburst

Planeswalkers
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Nahiri, the Harbringer
1 Ob Nixilis, Reignited
1 Chandra, Flamecaller

Lands
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
6 Forest
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Cinder Glade
1 Canopy Vista
2 Prairie Stream
1 Westvale Abbey
4 Evolving Wilds


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:12 pm 
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Welcome to the forum butete!

That is an interesting brew, but I think it might be trying to do too many things at one time, and that it has a bit of trouble with its curve.

You have twelve 4-drops, so you really want to be able to hit your fourth land drop on your fourth turn, but unless I've miscounted you are only running 25 lands, and are not running any cards other than Oath of Nissa that help you find your fourth land. Herald of the Pantheon also is pretty weak in a deck with so few creatures, because nearly every deck you play against will have some removal for creatures and most of the time it's just going to die. It is a bit odd to exclude Sorin from your list of Planeswalkers also. Westvale Abbey is also much too aggressive in a five color deck.

I would suggest -1 Gideon (you don't have enough sources of White mana to consistently cast him on curve), -1 Languish (not enough Black), -1 Westvale Abbey (need another dual land instead), -2 Herald, -2 Oath of Gideon (you don't have enough token synergies for the 1/1 tokens to be strong), -1 Explosive Vegetation (this deck does want to draw one of these, but if you draw two or more they will not be good) and -4 Brilliant Spectrum (Read the Bones would be better because it always lets you keep two cards and helps you find your fourth land, whereas Brilliant Spectrum costs 4 mana and only lets you keep two cards if you have four colors of mana, and you don't have enough mana fixing to count on that), and instead +4 Sylvan Ranger (you need the color fixing), +1 Woodland Cemetery (I think you need another Green and another Black source), +4 Read the Bones (straight swap for Brilliant Spectrum), +1 Sorin (stronger than Gideon in this deck and easier to cast), +1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets (also better than Gideon here), and +1 From Beyond (Ulamog is your best winning condition, so another way to find him is good. Also, if your opponent does not have an answer for them, a bunch of 1/1s can do good work over time).

You might also consider Oath of Jace instead of Fevered Vision, but I'm not sure one is better than the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:44 pm 
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This post has been moved to the Conflux thread. :)


Last edited by Kirito on Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Kirito, I have risen the Conflux thread from its slumber so you can move this pile over there.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Kirito, I have risen the Conflux thread from its slumber so you can move this pile over there.

Thank you, good sir.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:03 pm 
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I won the Steam Showdown with this list (undefeated, 7-1 in top 8 games), this deck is absurdly powerfull and my version felt very consistent and carried me despite my poor play
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f5b2e08aa5
The matchup against counterspell based control is rough because your removal and sweepers get stuck in hand. With sideboards (swap in 8 threats for the useless removal and sweepers) you would be heavily favorite. Against everything else I feel very favored


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Joly wrote:
I won the Steam Showdown with this list (undefeated, 7-1 in top 8 games), this deck is absurdly powerfull and my version felt very consistent and carried me despite my poor play
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f5b2e08aa5
The matchup against counterspell based control is rough because your removal and sweepers get stuck in hand. With sideboards (swap in 8 threats for the useless removal and sweepers) you would be heavily favorite. Against everything else I feel very favored



You would not be a heavy favorite against Esper post-board. They'd board, too, bringing in Suppression Bonds and more hard counters for spot removal and Horribly Awry. That matchup is never going to be good for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:25 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Joly wrote:
I won the Steam Showdown with this list (undefeated, 7-1 in top 8 games), this deck is absurdly powerfull and my version felt very consistent and carried me despite my poor play
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... f5b2e08aa5
The matchup against counterspell based control is rough because your removal and sweepers get stuck in hand. With sideboards (swap in 8 threats for the useless removal and sweepers) you would be heavily favorite. Against everything else I feel very favored



You would not be a heavy favorite against Esper post-board. They'd board, too, bringing in Suppression Bonds and more hard counters for spot removal and Horribly Awry. That matchup is never going to be good for you.

we could test it but stuff like Evolutionary Leap and Gaea's Revenge kind of messes up Esper
Blue control isn't the deck that goes over the top of midrange decks anymore since there is no late game engine that can lock a game as well. Since Sphinx's Revelation there wasn't any dominant control deck in Standard. Most of the advantages they have are game 1 when they make most of the oponents removal dead


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