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Which is the best flicker decklist?
Poll ended at Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:19 am
Bant tempophonic 22%  22%  [ 6 ]
Espère Revoltism 11%  11%  [ 3 ]
Grixis Hulkology 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Temur fog burnotomy 33%  33%  [ 9 ]
Grixis flame shadow fire weaver drome 11%  11%  [ 3 ]
Orzhov tokenomatic 19%  19%  [ 5 ]
Bant willbreaker tempo controlaholic 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 27
Total voters : 17
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:01 pm 
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This only confirms my suspicions that the Willbreaker deck was not, in fact, submitted by Maggit. :teach:

Edit: I'm surprised Hulks isn't getting votes. I didn't think it was best but still better than some that did get votes.


Lol, it cracks me up that the two builds that have best record with me are the only two without any vote hahaha...Barney, set the record straight once again!! haha

(btw, by now I'm sure I could nail every brewer :P ...some of them by the comments, and some of them just by the building details )

(btw2...I just added your scores and I saw something funny, I'll PM you)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:45 pm 
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maggit, i'm so sorry I didn't get to playtest all the decks this time out. In a contest where i'm not singing the praises of the competitive decks we will see voting results where Maggit will get less votes and Timh will get plenty. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:24 pm 
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I have some time tonight and tomorrow to test these - looks fun!

Blinkophonic results:

Record 4-1

Game 1- opponent replaced by AI immediately. AI plays a Selfless Spirit, Monkey Pirate Woman + Avacyn and keeps trying to flip Avacyn (first by attacking with the Monkey Pirate Woman, and me stupidly blocking the Monkey; second by sacrificing the Selfless Spirit). Both times I flickered a Reflector Mage and then swung in to win. I didn't like this deck when I built it, but this game was fun.

Game 2 - opponent appears to be bad, also they were one of those steam players that only has boxes for their name. They were replaced by AI midway through the game. They were running some kind of BW lifegain nonsense, and lost (I like BW lifegain, but it seems weak. It should be the subject of the next deckbuilding contest).

Game 3 - opponent was another steam player with boxes for a name. Despite being rank 40, they either don't know how this game works, or they don't know how numbers work, since they attacked with a 4 power creature into a Drowner of Hope while tapped out. They quit shortly after.

Game 4- opponent played blue-green turbo fog and milled me out. I drew a rec sage that I flickered to kill his tutelage early, but he had a lot of life gain and a lot of fogs, which made me unable to beat it. This has to be the most annoying deck to play against, I hate Wizards for putting 8 fogs in the game.

Game 5 - opponent plays Grixis reanimator, but I had a Reflector Mage and some flicker so the reanimated creatures went back to the hand, and Gideon took over

Conclusion:

1. I don't know why Westvale Abbey is in this deck. I had early mana issues in 4 of 5 games. None were game-changing but I felt like I got some lucky subsequent draws. However I drew either 1 or 2 Westvale Abbeys every single game, but I had no situation where I ever wanted to turn it or create a creature.

2. I hate turbo fog

3. Deck was fun, but probably not a keeper.

Blinkism results: 0-3

Game 1 - loss to UG Ramp. They had a Reality Smasher and a Gaia's Revenge; I had an Aether Swooper, so I was winning I guess but then a Skysovereign killed it.

Game 2 - loss to Abzhan planeswalker. They had a turn 4 Kalitas; I had zero removal. I managed to stall a long time by saccing tokens and scrying, but still I never drew removal and as the planewalkers started hitting the board, I couldn't deal with it.

Game 3- loss to UG flash. They countered my things, I quit.

Conclusion:

1. Aether Swooper is apparently a card we have.
2. I don't really like blue here at all. The BW tokens / revolt deck is decent, andd this deck is like that one, but much worse.
3. I can only bring myself to play three games with this. I may try two more tomorrow. I can't say that this is a worse deck than the previous one because my opponents were better but it wasn't very fun.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:24 pm 
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maggit, i'm so sorry I didn't get to playtest all the decks this time out. In a contest where i'm not singing the praises of the competitive decks we will see voting results where Maggit will get less votes and Timh will get plenty. :(


True story.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:39 pm 
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dh50 wrote:
Game 1 - loss to UG Ramp. They had a Reality Smasher and a Gaia's Revenge; I had an Aether Swooper, so I was winning I guess but then a Skysovereign killed it.


:rofl:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:23 am 
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In a contest where i'm not singing the praises of the competitive decks we will see voting results where Maggit will get less votes :(


:V

It's almost remarkable, the effect...for example, in Flaky's own personal classification, I ended in second place (adding the points, I mean)...and still I keep my cherry unpopped...is it the stench coming from my armpits, maybe? The constant, paranoid side glances? The fungus in my forehead, perhaps? :(

It's a mystery!

hahaha


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:33 am 
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Well, as all the votes are basically done, I'm gonna post my guess...

My bet:

Vert: Fog

Timmy: Fireshadow

Darksock: Bant

Haven: Esper

Me: Hulks

Flaky: Orzhov

Humper: Willbreaker (he did...mine. Well played, sir)

Do I get, at least, a medal for nailing this one? :(

:V

I have to find time to make a good thread about the builds, lol

Oh, and I finally solved the mystery of the red splash in the fog build...it's just that Vert felt his Balzac shrinking just from playing a color combination as homo as Simic is...and splashed Red just to inject a bit of manliness in the build.

In fact, the name of the chosen card says it all: Fall of the Titans. He's literally encouraging the little buddies to get back down to their usual position


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:00 am 
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Sorry maggit, I thought fog-burn was yours...

Also would have pegged orzhov Tokens as humper's.

I have to apologize for my deck, I actually built it and submitted it without actually testing it (didn't have time). I submitted because at the time only 1 deck had been submitted and I thought I could take a crack at it and actually decided to mix both themes since I missed the Last one.

Really interesting how different people had vastly different experience with it. Also strange that nobody noticed that mine and the orzhov deck are quite similar. Also shows that nobody plays much atention to the other decks I post, (except maybe maggit) because this is a flickerized version of my orzhov Aetherpilots deck:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17838#p540749

Have to agree with some of the criticims... Some cards are underpowered, but that's mostly due to a goodstuff mentality. But flicker should be a goodstuff deck I guess...

I did love to see the effort put into testing the decks. Awesome. I do think Rng was a big factor though. Next time around, if I find the time, I'd like to pit the decks vs popular archtypes with a friend.
Like grabbing 5 decks that "represent" the meta or are just popular and playing the submitted decks against them.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:03 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Sorry maggit, I thought fog-burn was yours...

Really interesting how different people had vastly different experience with it.

is a flickerized version of my orzhov Aetherpilots deck:


I'd like to pit the decks vs popular archtypes with a friend.
Like grabbing 5 decks that "represent" the meta or are just popular and playing the submitted decks against them.


Sorry why, mate? That was the beauty of this contest :D

In my case, it helped to confirm the impression about my builds having something that people dislike...not me. Ey, it's a relief, lol.

And it's curious, cause all the reviewers have found it more or less well done and funny...and maybe I'm being optimistic, but I'd bet a beer than in a mini-league as the one you mention, it would get in the top half of the Effectivity classification, hands down

So perhaps is all coincidence, but it starts to look strange...I mean, zero votes, being the consensus that is playable and fun? Lol, that's almost a thing to be proud of, like getting Tails 20 times in a row tossing a coin, or something

Lol, mine is also a version of one that I posted when Kaladesh got out...nobody noticed either

About the experience...I think it has to do with subjetivity, up to an extent.

For example, I liked your build when I discovered/rationalized its purpose, and then I obviously played it with probably twice as care as the rest, to an impressive record, if just to prove myself right...way to go, objetivity! But that kind of things are inevitable too, so who cares

Now, about the scoring: At least on my part, I focus a lot on this being a deckbuilding contest, when scoring time arrives.

If it was a playability/enjoyability/spiking contest, I will award votes in a different way...I wouldn't be so picky with subjects like the Wastegate Affair, for example.

Or the Willbreaker, or the FotT etc etc or above all, mana maths

But it is a building contest, so I'm judging above all imagination, rigour, care for detail and know-how in the builds. I don't mind if the concept is janky, or weak...just if it's impeccably executed.

Like with movies...not all can be Citizen Kane, I can enjoy to the max Snatch, or Dawn of the Dead (the new) if they are well done, and they are


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:21 am 
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Maybe a poll isn't the best way to evaluate the winner?

I probably enjoy deckbuilding above all else in Magic. I often put together decks in the Helper I never get around to playing, because I just don't have the time. I kind of loathe tuning decks, because you really have to play a deck a lot to find out what works and what doesn't, especially if you go for crazy ideas that nobody's done before. So I usually put a lot of thought into the "theoretical" part of building. So a fair amount of the decks I post get little to no feedback and pass by completely unnoticed.
I do however get a real kick out of seeing other players try out and play my decks. There are a couple of forum uses who seem to like them and ocasionally take them for a spin and if they fun with them, that's totally awesome.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:37 am 
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I generally avoid playing other people's builds (unless its for a specific reason like this contest or to offer feedback). Sort of a "Real men build their own decks" "If you didn't build it you didn't win it" mentality.

Rarely, I'll see a build that uses interactions I'd never considered in a way that seems really fun and effective. And, I think more often then not, those builds were posted by Maggit. I thought for sure the Towers build was his.

In this case, I guess most people voted for one deck that they thought was best (Bant flicker or Tower) and one that they just liked and yours just kept dodging either vote by a hair.

Also, my "rating" was done on the fly and I didn't really agonize over trying to be super consistent. It was done more for fun and to add flavor to the contest. I think I might have overrated the first one's effectiveness (it got tested vs the lowest level opponents thx to me starting the testing in the low 20s) and I def underrated the Esper one compared to later builds (3/5 effectiveness would be consistent, I think). So... apologies to the people that got the short end of the stick, grain of salt, and all that.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:48 am 
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Ey, I like this anonymus format...for starters, I can set as next objetive to make a build that gets votes :V

Another thing that'll propose is that the Winner of each round can decide the next theme, that would be nice...

Oh, and I have a Tower or two build from day 1 of AER haha...in fact, I have one that is the very same concept as Vert's...I'll rant about that in the after-thread I just posted


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:51 am 
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Oh man, that would be great if Vert's deck was the Fog one cuz it's the only one I played and if the deck builders weren't anonymous, Vert's deck would be the only one I'd play (only for lack of time, I want to play the best).

Maggit, I still play your snek deck from lhe last contest. It's SO good at doing the counters quest.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:21 am 
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More results...this is a long post

Playtesting:

Spoiler


Overall rankings:


Spoiler


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:26 am 
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One day missing for this contest, but i could add few more days if 2/3 people ask for it. Here's some impressions about this 2nd round:
- not sure about anonymous decklists. I expected something like a witch hunt, trying to discover the deckbuilders, maybe Barney would try to do it if he had more time, because you know he is Barney. But tomorrow we will know if maggit deserves a medal...
- i really appreciated how people posted their feedback. There were long posts about the games, in particular i liked TheFlakyMage ones, but also other people made nice posts.
About the themes, i already have 2 themes that seem good ones for a contest, but maybe i should start making a poll like Legenvd...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:37 am 
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No need to extend on my behalf, i wouldn't be able to play until Sunday anyway. Yeah, if I had the time, I would have posted a ton about each deck. Making fun of some, complimenting others, and doing it in a way that would make it fun for the deck builders.

Seeing how long the results posts were getting, there's obviously enjoyment to be had on lots of levels. i really think we should do two weeks of play testing in the next one. It's really fun to talk about, and, as an example, I only testing the Fog Burn deck but every time someone else posted feedback about it, I found myself wanting to read it to see if they had similar impressions to me. This circular feedback is fun for all. Testers and builders alike.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:21 pm 
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I agree with Barney, the process is as fun as the contest itself


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Finished round 2. Sl33p ended up party chatting with me for them, but I don't think I had the setting right to include his dialogue (or set up right to mute me to opponents :V)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/126271265

Recap to follow at some point this weekend. Starting move into a new place tomorrow so I doubt I'll be able to find time for a round 3, as much as I'd like to.


Recap:

G1: Orzhov Tokens Control vs Golgari Crats = L. I got log jamed with a bunch of 3cmc spells while opponent went wide. Just needed to draw into Yahenni's Expertise to turn the game around, and dug hard for it with Copter looting, but I never was able to find it. Didn't draw into any removal, which could have helped me buy some more time to find my sweeper. As much as I didn't understand Expertise in this build, this was def a match were I needed it.

G2: Bant Human Flicker vs Selesnya +1/+1 Counters = W. I went pretty wide while my opp went tall, dropping a ton of 1/1 counters on a Tracker and a Militia Captain. I got Willbreaker down and was ready to start stealing opps team, but unfortunately only had the dood who taps NONhumans, and opp only had Humans on the board - so we were just stuck in a stalemate for a while. I eventually was able to play Ajani, who could target his Humans for theft and colossal lifegain, but opp had an Evoleap out to prevent my life profit and convert the theft attempt into more creature draws. I minus'd Ajani anyways to clear one of his buffed up doods off the board, and instead of Evoleaping, opp thought he could prevent it with a spell that grants Indestructible. Of course that didn't work like they thought it would, and they rage quit after the blunder. Finished it out a turn or two later against the AI, who at least knew to Evoleap my targets, even though it didn't matter at that point.

G3: Bant Human Flicker vs Superfriends = L. I started off the game on the wrong foot after taking timing out during the mulligan phase and getting stuck with a 1 land hand (and a hub at that). Was chatting with Sl33p and not paying attention to the timer, and after the screw up I was ready to concede and redo the game, but I figured I'd see how my first few draws went. I didn't draw my 2nd land until T3, but since I had a play and my opp wasn't developing their board yet, I kept going and fortunately top decked another land the next turn - so I decided I was going to see it through until the end. In the end, I was facing down Ob, Flipped-Nissa, Arlinn, Chandra, and Ajani with a lonely Tireless Tracker - and I would have won if I could have just found a 2nd :u: for Baral's Expertise, but it was one card too late (drew it with a clue on my last turn, but had already played a land for the turn to get the clue in the 1st place). This game actually ended up being pretty fun and entertaining, as I did a lot of ducking and weaving with Fluxes and Blossomings to keep my Tracker on the board, clearly frustrating my opp and making them paranoid. On their last turn when they had me dead to rights, they were letting their entire timer run down, presumably fearing what other tricks I might have up my sleeve. In the end it wasn't too shabby considering my awful starting hand.


Final deck reviews to follow. Don't have time for a round 3, so I'll just have to base my reviews on the games I was able to get in.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Final deck reviews:
Spoiler

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Last edited by The Secret of TIMH on Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:00 pm 
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:party:


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