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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:01 pm 
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:bump:

My take on Simic Drazi Ramp. I'm very unsure about how good the deck is; feedback appreciated.

Simic Drazi Ramp

Description
Untested draft of AKH Simic Ramp

Creature(14)
3 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Tireless Tracker
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Altered Ego
2 x Thought-Knot Seer
2 x Drowner of Hope
1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant(6)
3 x Spatial Contortion
3 x Warping Wail

Sorcery(9)
3 x Ruin in Their Wake
4 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Baral's Expertise

Split(3)
3 x Spring // Mind

Enchantment(2)
2 x Sandwurm Convergence

Planeswalker(2)
1 x Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 x Nissa, Vital Force

Land(24)
2 x Island
9 x Forest
9 x Wastes
4 x Evolving Wilds

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... a42fe90c7d

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Not having any creatures to drop before T3 seems dangerous. Colorless twist is interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Didn't Donachaid do something like this eons ago?

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:38 pm 
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So what's better; using mana dorks as our means of ramping, or using cards like Explosive Vegetation/Gift of Paradise? Image

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:49 pm 
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zzmorg82 wrote:
So what's better; using mana dorks as our means of ramping, or using cards like Explosive Vegetation/Gift of Paradise? Image

Dorks and Veggies

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:00 am 
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zzmorg82 wrote:
So what's better; using mana dorks as our means of ramping, or using cards like Explosive Vegetation/Gift of Paradise? Image


If you plan on playing other/better enchantments like the wurm thingy or aid from the cowl, you could consider playing 1 or 2 Gifts to draw out the hate and just gain 3 life.

I don't see much love for Bounty of the Luxa in the Ramp decks? Too slow I guess?


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:46 am 
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Yeah, Bounty seems too slow. You're better off with Vegetation t3/4, and it gets worse later IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:06 pm 
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I enjoyed playing the story modes Rhonas level. After messing around with some different Simic ramp builds, I went back and played that level a few more times, and built my own version of it.

2 x Deathcap Cultivator
2 x Sylvan Advocate
4 x Druid of the Cowl
4 x Cartouche of Knowledge
2 x Pull from Tomorrow
1 x Nissa, Steward of the Elements
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Trial of Strength
2 x Altered Ego
2 x Trial of Knowledge
2 x Bounty of the Luxa
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 x Baral's Expertise
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 x Honored Hydra
2 x Mouth // Feed
2 x Sandwurm Convergence
3 x Spring // Mind

7 x Island
8 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Hinterland Harbor
4 x Woodland Stream



Deck is really fun to play. It's a blast when you get a bunch of Trials out and drop a Cartouche on Advocate or Hydra, then bounce all the trails back for more 4/2 tokens and card draw. So many ways to draw(Feed, Pull, Knowledge, Mind)/get (cartouching back Trials) full hands that I'll probably be adding Kefnet. Also Rhonas due to ease of having 4 power doods in play. Likely cutting Altered Egos (put them in because playing with the embalm mimic in Story Deck was great, but Altered Ego doesn't offer as much value because no embalm for recursion or value pitching to Pull/Knowledge. Although you can make super huge copies of stuff w/ it). The other thing I'd like to work in once I see more what doesn't pull enough weight is the other Baral's Expertise - because that's backbreaking when board is gridlocked.

Obviously Trials/Cartouches prob too jank for Best Deck potential, but it can win on the ladder and is a lot of fun to play.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
Yeah, Bounty seems too slow. You're better off with Vegetation t3/4, and it gets worse later IMO.


I've warmed up a great deal to Bounty. I've been working it in to all my Simic ramp decks recently.

It's not as bad alternating modes between turns as I initially thought. Drawing a card every other turn is meaningful to help insure you have something to cast on the mana dump turn.

It is fragile to recsages tho, so it's def a risk/reward card. But if opp isn't playing with enchantment hate I'd rather have bounty than Veggies (best a mix of both I think - 2 Bounty, 3 Veggies).

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Bounty would be so much better if it gave you mana the turn after it came down ... as it is, you can't take the turn off to play Bounty if you're under pressure. At least Explosive Vegetation gives you more mana the next turn.

A concern with Simic ramp is the weak removal. Why not add white for better options? Tragic Arrogance / Planar Outburst, Skywhaler's, Thopter Arrest, Cast Out, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:23 am 
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I've got 2 simic ramp decks, one creature based and quite dense, the other fog and bounce based, and thus, generally full of air.


Here's the creature based one :

2 x Walking Ballista

2 x Oath of Nissa
2 x Sylvan Advocate
4 x Druid of the Cowl
3 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Ruin in their Wake

1 x Rhonas the indomitable
1 x Nissa, Steward of the Elements
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Rogue Refiner
1 x Reclamation Sage

2 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Bounty of the Luxua
2 x Baral's Expertise

1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
2 x Nissa's Renewal
1 x Part the Waterveil

1 x Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger
1 x Kozilek, The Great Distortion

5 x Island
9 x Forest
2 x Wastes
2 x Lumbering Falls
3 x Aether Hub
4 x Evolving Wilds


This deck tries to just play a gradual game with a mix of threats, disruption and ramp all the way up into the 10 drops. New Nissa can be quite valuable here as a scrying engine or a finisher, but her 0 ability I think is a bit crap in this deck, I'd prefer to use that in a Bant midrange deck that can just have 50% of the cards flip at 0 with nissa at 3 counters.
Rhonas is a good threat here since he can turn any dude you have into a lethal threat lategame due to all the mana you have.

Here is the spell based one:

Upheaval Version 3.1

4 x fog

2 x Thing in the Ice
4 x Druid of the Cowl
3 x Censor
2 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Commence the festivities

1 x Spring/Mind

4 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Commit/Memory

1 x Torrential Gearhulk
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Part the Waterveil
1 x Crush of Tentacles
2 x Nissa's Renewal
2 x Displacement Wave

1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 x Pull from Tomorrow

8 x Island
8 x Forest
2 x Wastes
4 x Woodland Stream
2 x Lumbering Falls


I've been working on a deck that tries to play a game similar to the effects of the old card Upheaval for many seasons now. Obviously not having access to artifact based ramp and our current upheaval type cards not bouncing lands means we never quite get there, but commit/memory and Pull from Tomorrow are a nice little upgrade to the concept.
I'm always interested in suggestions for this deck :)
Kozilek is probably a cut in this deck because of the lack of spread of the CMC's ; he's another wincon, but the deck may appreciate another spring/mind or a Pulse of Murasa or an unsubstantiate instead.


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Here's my latest try at Simic.

Ramp-a-Jank
Creatures (10)
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Tireless Tracker

2 x Altered Ego
2 x Thought-Knot Seer

1 x Disciple of the Ring

1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 x Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Instants and Sorceries (22)
4 x Fog

3 x Ruin in their Wake
3 x Spatial Contortion
3 x Warping Wail

2 x Pulse of Murasa

4 x Explosive Vegetation

2 x Baral's Expertise

1 x Part the Waterveil

Split (3)
3 x Spring // Mind

Lands (25)
3 x Island
9 x Forest
9 x Wastes
4 x Evolving Wilds


Idea is to ramp up and not die until you can create a big tempo swing using Baral's Expertise, Ulamog or Part the Waterveil.
Not 100% sure about the list, but in my limited testing it hasn't been bad. It's very possible Commit // Memory should take the spot of Pulse of Murasa.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:48 am 
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I started brewing a simic ramp deck last night that has been so-so on the ladder but I think with a couple tweaks the deck could be good.

It basically started because on online buddy asked me if I ever use fog to which I replied "no, I hate that card and I think it's bad." I decided I have never brewed a deck that uses fog or a ramp deck, lets try simic ramp.

Here is what I have played on day one of the brew but I already have some other ideas on how to improve.

The Ramp
4 x Druid of the Cowl
2 x Deathcap Cultivator
2 x Bounty of the Luxa (just started testing haven't played it yet, could go back to 4x veggies)
2 x Explosive Vegetation
1 x From Beyond
2 x Nissa's Renewal

Survive the rush
4 x Fog
2 x Commencement of Festivities (i think i need to go up to 3x)
2 x Disperse
3 x Censor
2 x Commit // Memory (recyling the gy and refilling the hand is great in a ramp deck as most draws post memory will be gas)
1 x Crush of Tentacles

The pay offs aka I win cards
2 x Pull From Tomorrow (I pulled for 12 yesterday)
1 x Part the Waterveil (cast with awaken, even better with 13 mana on Lumbering falls)
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 x Walking Ballista (In this deck his name is walking board wipe)

Utility cards I am testing for this deck
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa - I drew him once off a pull and he sat in my hand as other cards did work. Still thinking about swapping for a 3rd festivities.
1 x Kefnet the Mindful - A card draw engine and indestructible flying blocker. Getting 7 cards isn't easy if you are on the ropes or haven't ramped like planned.

Mana
8 x islands
10 x forests
2 x Lumbering falls
2 x hiterland harbor
2 x Woodland Stream


Cards I have considered and am still thinking about trying:
Gaea's Revenge - would be nice to have anti-counter beat down tech.
Sandwurm Convergence - turn 2 dork, turn 3 land drop + bounty of the luxa, turn 4 land drop and we have 8 mana to cast this.
Oblivion Sower - interesting ramp and defensive creature that can combo with crush
Kozilek, the Great Distortion - works well with kef but will have to add some wastes for him, complicates mana a bit and can't be cast until turn 5 at the earliest.

I haven't been keeping up with all the brewing in these threads. I am late to the party and came up with this and see yall have been at it a while. Any comments or obvious changes? I will update it when it's a little more finalized later this week.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:01 am 
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I think that Gaea's Revenge and Elder Deep-Fiend are a great addition for some blowout plays. Simic with fog and ramp should also consider Displacement Wave. What about Baral's Expertise?


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:06 am 
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I started brewing a simic ramp deck last night that has been so-so on the ladder but I think with a couple tweaks the deck could be good.

It basically started because on online buddy asked me if I ever use fog to which I replied "no, I hate that card and I think it's bad." I decided I have never brewed a deck that uses fog or a ramp deck, lets try simic ramp.

Here is what I have played on day one of the brew but I already have some other ideas on how to improve.

The Ramp
4 x Druid of the Cowl
2 x Deathcap Cultivator
2 x Bounty of the Luxa (just started testing haven't played it yet, could go back to 4x veggies)
2 x Explosive Vegetation
1 x From Beyond
2 x Nissa's Renewal

Survive the rush
4 x Fog
2 x Commencement of Festivities (i think i need to go up to 3x)
2 x Disperse
3 x Censor
2 x Commit // Memory (recyling the gy and refilling the hand is great in a ramp deck as most draws post memory will be gas)
1 x Crush of Tentacles

The pay offs aka I win cards
2 x Pull From Tomorrow (I pulled for 12 yesterday)
1 x Part the Waterveil (cast with awaken, even better with 13 mana on Lumbering falls)
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 x Walking Ballista (In this deck his name is walking board wipe)

Utility cards I am testing for this deck
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa - I drew him once off a pull and he sat in my hand as other cards did work. Still thinking about swapping for a 3rd festivities.
1 x Kefnet the Mindful - A card draw engine and indestructible flying blocker. Getting 7 cards isn't easy if you are on the ropes or haven't ramped like planned.

Mana
8 x islands
10 x forests
2 x Lumbering falls
2 x hiterland harbor
2 x Woodland Stream


Cards I have considered and am still thinking about trying:
Gaea's Revenge - would be nice to have anti-counter beat down tech.
Sandwurm Convergence - turn 2 dork, turn 3 land drop + bounty of the luxa, turn 4 land drop and we have 8 mana to cast this.
Oblivion Sower - interesting ramp and defensive creature that can combo with crush
Kozilek, the Great Distortion - works well with kef but will have to add some wastes for him, complicates mana a bit and can't be cast until turn 5 at the earliest.

I haven't been keeping up with all the brewing in these threads. I am late to the party and came up with this and see yall have been at it a while. Any comments or obvious changes? I will update it when it's a little more finalized later this week.

I would consider Baral's Expertise, useful for protection and ramp in the same turn. From Beyond is a bit slow as ramp card, maybe another Vegetation is better.
Also about Sandwurm Convergence, you cannot do that on turn 4 in that way since Bounty draws you a card the first turn. An unreliable way (but i did it once) is turn 2 land+dork, turn 3 land+kiora+dork, turn 4 Convergence. Ofc it requires 8 cards and no disruption by your opponent :V

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:25 am 
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Giocher wrote:
I would consider Baral's Expertise, useful for protection and ramp in the same turn. From Beyond is a bit slow as ramp card, maybe another Vegetation is better.
Also about Sandwurm Convergence, you cannot do that on turn 4 in that way since Bounty draws you a card the first turn. An unreliable way (but i did it once) is turn 2 land+dork, turn 3 land+kiora+dork, turn 4 Convergence. Ofc it requires 8 cards and no disruption by your opponent :V

Oooh I would rather not play bounty if it doesn't ramp the next turn, I haven't actually played it yet. That's a real shame, I want the mana first and draw next. From beyond is slow ramp true but it's other ability to fetch Ulamog is very relevant.

One thing I am trying to do is keep my card's cmc in the 2-4-6-8+ range. odd cost cards could be played but I was thinking for max efficiency that's where I would want them.

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:24 am 
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I might give this archetype another go after finishing with Jund ramp. From what I'd noticed before, ramp is either run mana dorks or skip them and run sweepers. Since Simic has weak sweepers, I'd favour the mana dorks.

I don't see Fog as playable. It's effectively a "gain as much life as however much your opponent is attacking for" card, and pure lifegain cards have historically not been good. They're also dead if the opponent is not threatening to win by attacking (e.g. if they're ticking a Liliana up).

Can consider Thing in the Ice as a pseudo-sweeper.

I'd still like to see that donachaid list ...


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:57 am 
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Ah for crissakes, ill try one more time to find it

Ok it's on that horrible site Magicduelshelper, that's why I couldn't find it

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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:19 am 
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So, since we have a final cardpool, I think it's fair to suggest some fundamental things about the environment, and their implications for Simic ramp:

1. Removal is very efficient, and the presence of totally OP agressive 2 drops in the format puts an immense pressure on people to play a large amount of this early game removal.

Hence, a gameplan centered around 2 mana ramp dorks is flawed. the Ramp strategy cannot do the classic 2 > 4 > 6 curve.

2. As stated before, the agressive drops in duels are very good, you can't afford to be too fancy, especially in a color pair like U/G, which traditionally likes to go over the top massively. There just isn't enough consistency to get there in the face of the average agressive deck. Believe me I've tried... playing with fogs, multiple titans, zombie waterfalls, endless bounce cycles etc etc. It's just not good enough.


Hence, early interaction is a must.


3. Conrol is very strong as well, one has to play threats that are good vs control if you hope to 'own' the lategame.

Hence, threat selection is paramount, foregoing too splashy effects, but rather concentrating on things that are hard to 1 for 1 and/or have massive ETB impact.


Here is a simic list that was constructed by these tenets:

STFD BBB

2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Sylvan Advocate
3 x Censor
1 x Essence Scatter
3 x Unsubstantiate

1 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Tireless Tracker
2 x Rogue Refiner
4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage

2 x Bounty of the Luxa
2 x Glimmer of Genius
2 x Commit // Memory

1 x Nissa, Vital Force
2 x Baral's Expertise
1 x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Part the Waterveil

2 x Gaea's Revenge

1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger

3 x Skyline Cascade
5 x Island
9 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Hinterland Harbor
3 x Evolving Wilds


If your meta sees very little blue control, Replace the Gaea's Revenges with Sandwurm Convergence. Skyship could be big jace, but I like the etb 3 damage and the fast clock it represents in steam's environment.
Glimmer of Genius is chosen over Pull from tomorrow because pull needs to be a 6 drop for it to get better than glimmer, and glimmer can be cast of baral's, if your meta is hyper agressive, consider going down another step and playing Hieroglyphic illumination instead.
The 1 of essence scatter could be anything really... but i'd advocate a defensive card or baby nissa.
In a world where we'd have sideboards, Confiscation Coup should be perfect in them. But if you just want to have fun, the t3 pilgrimage into t4 coup your whatever should be very good in many matchups :)


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 Post subject: Re: [BREWING] Simic Ramp
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:24 am 
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not a single NGA post for 27 hours and then BAM, Rabble comes back with an awesome epic post and fun build! Too cool.

What's the BBB for in the deck title? It's the only thing i can't figure out :)

i'll never play it because if i'm holding up a Censor AND an Essence Scatter and villain taps out to play a creature, i'm going to go into some serious analysis paralysis trying to decide which to play. No thanks

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