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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Mill has always been my deck of choice. But MtG has little love for it.
I still consider Circu, Dimir Lobotomist as the best mill card for the sheer distress it gives the opponent when they dont have a kill card in hand.

Anyway Amonkhet has given us cycling which might work and make mill a bit relevant again.
As i see it, the deck must be played like a control deck. Draw and go. Counter if you can.
Kill if you have the spell. But always cycle. Dig for that Sphinx's Tutelage or Archfiend of Ifnir :D

2x Fatal Push Your auto include black removal spell against early game aggression. Can kill embalmed creatures as well . Should be three of a kind but doesnt cycle. Large amounts of draw should make it easy to find them.
3x Scarab Feast Only use Scarab Feast when necessary. Otherwise its a cycle card.

1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Overall spell recycler if it grows into a planeswalker otherwise a digger
2x Pull from Tomorrow Your end game draw spell. Discard comes handy as well.
3x Compelling Deterrence To remove an attacker, protect your creatures and Sphinx's Tutelage
3x Censor Counter large creatures or spell. Otherwise cycle.

2x Oath of Jace Its a dig spell.
3x Sphinx's Tutelage The reason why we are even .
4x Unburden If Fevered vision is not in play, kill their hand.

2x Curator of Mysteries Good body and Scry whenever I discard or Cycle makes it a must have
4x Hieroglyphic Illumination Helps dig and can cycle when needed
2x Languish Cast and hope for the best. Most creatures die from Languish and since the Meta is going the fast route for the time being, this spell can kill most of them.
2x Yahenni's Expertise Radiant Flames's brother from a better mother. An expertise into Unburden is a thing to behold.

2x Glyph Keeper The deck needs more threats. This is the baddest blue has. Embalm makes it extra nice
2x Archfiend of Ifnir Lots of cycling. Why not make use of them? Most often than not when Archfiend of Ifnir comes in play, kill cards have been discarded by Unburden. Also it reminds me a bit of Circu, Dimir Lobotomist in that s**t your pants way he makes you feel.

1x Commit // Memory Commit buys time. If you have a Sphinx's Tutelage, thats an auto remove. The other half is for that moment when you know youre gonna die next turn. Draw seven with a tutelage in play is a good start in whiting down their deck. And who knows you might find that card that you need to stop the current threat.

23 Lands
8x Island
7x Swamp
2x Sunken Hollow
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Evolving Wilds


Can this deck survive in the ladder? Let me know what you think!

Cards that didnt make the cut:

Essence Scatter Doesnt cycle
Other Planeswalker Cant protect them
Other counter spells Costs too much and no cycle


Last edited by butete09 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Wouldn't that be a match made in Hell, with the Archfiend and all?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Yes it certainly is! My bad. will fix that :)


Not tested yet. Still trying it at ladder


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:17 pm 
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-6 Scarab Feast / Compelling Argument
+2 Curator of Mysteries
+4 Hieroglyphic Illumination

Saying you mostly want to cycle them - for the same cycle cost, sphinx optionally gives you another threat that dodges 4/6 of your sweepers, in case you're not drawing Archfiend (plus scry added to all your discards will help you find what you need), and Illumination draw seems a better optional cast than Feast or Argument.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Didnt know the sphinx could do that! Thanks Timh! Yup, working better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:26 pm 
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If sweep doesn't come along you die. Play tested. Maybe splash of green for fogs...

Scarabs not worth the spots, actually the cycle thing does not get you out of bad situations. Trying to combo with a rare card is always difficult.

Two fatal pushes not reliable. You get beaten early then you either remove or gg.

Glyph Keeper is ok.

I'd look to improve this trying to get some other early game solution, remove Archfiend of Ifnir and Scarabs.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Im getting the same feeling that fog is the only way to go for mill right now. And I hate fog! A fog deck would mean Curator of Mysteries as the only creature i can keep...


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:09 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
Wouldn't that be a match made in Hell, with the Archfiend and all?


Hint: Mill Cycle or Archfiend of Ifnir and Mill is a match made in (Haven)

FTFY

Moheekan wrote:

I'd look to improve this trying to get some other early game solution, remove Archfiend of Ifnir .


Read: "the very concept is crap"

:V

I disagree, btw...with Havens, I think this can work


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:13 am 
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Yes, removing Archfiend throws it all away lol

Thinking a bit harder on this I found some more stability with:

3 x Fatal Push
3 x Pore Over the Pages
1 x Noxious Gearhulk


-3 Scarab Feast
-4 Unburden

Fatal Push got extra value now after Embalm since it can remove tokens.

Pore Over the Pages works great with Archfiend of Ifnir. I find it better than Unburden since it digs for 3 and helps you find what you want. If Archfiend is in play, smile.

Noxious Gearhulk removes, gives life, defends and you can bounce him with Compelling Deterrence.

Still AI testing, I'm afraid of the ladder :D The thing is I like playing mill also even against the AI :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:51 am 
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Noxious Gearhulk with Compelling Deterrence sounds nice. Too bad we only have one Gearhulk. Archfiend of Ifnir is also too unreliable with it being a 2 of a kind. Fog is really the best way to go. Tested fog and got 4 to 1 in ladder. While this deck got 2 to 3. And on those two wins my life total was less than 10. Too low for comfort.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:17 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
You really should try the Havens...deja vu...


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:43 pm 
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butete09 wrote:
Noxious Gearhulk with Compelling Deterrence sounds nice. Too bad we only have one Gearhulk. Archfiend of Ifnir is also too unreliable with it being a 2 of a kind. Fog is really the best way to go. Tested fog and got 4 to 1 in ladder. While this deck got 2 to 3. And on those two wins my life total was less than 10. Too low for comfort.


If you are going to go the Fog route, you could always try the Temur build that I threw together. I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, but I feel like it could be pretty good.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Drake Haven is a wonderful card if you play it at the first few turns. But like the Archfiend of Ifnirit is a two off. It is unreliable from my test games. Tried using it with Yahenni's Expertise and Languish to control the game while im still digging for them to no effect. Also the creatures generated are too low in power. A more token based deck like would have more success.

@ Eon will look into that. Adding to might be worth it for the extra draws


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:24 am 
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I envisioned a deck similar to this when I opened packs and saw Cycling & Ifnir.. I imagined the potential increase in Tutelage decks and sighed to myself, even though I'm fond of Dimir.

Ruthless Sniper springs to mind. But I suppose he dies to your sweepers, which do a better job of clearing the opponent's board than he does.

I think we could find something better than Compelling Deterence. With no Zombies it's just a straight bounce.
Unsubstantiate does the same thing but has additional functions (bouncing a spell).
Or Essence Scatter is a more permanent solution to a creature.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:48 am 
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Preferred Pronoun Set: Xhir/xhim, depending on Moon phase
butete09 wrote:
Drake Haven is a wonderful card if you play it at the first few turns. But like the Archfiend of Ifnirit is a two off. It is unreliable from my test games. Tried using it with Yahenni's Expertise and Languish to control the game while im still digging for them to no effect. Also the creatures generated are too low in power. A more token based deck like would have more success.

@ Eon will look into that. Adding to might be worth it for the extra draws


Yeah, and Jace is just one...so? Has every card to be the core of the build? And 2/2 flyers for 1 mana is weak???


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:09 am 
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Talrand's invocation is kinda underpowered for this format I think. Once you start getting 3+ drakes you are doing it, but that takes some time if you don't drop it early. At rare it's not worth to build around really, if it would be uncommon or common it'd be super. Tapland into removal into haven into cathartic reunion make 2 drakes is great, but how often does it come up currently?
If you just make a GOOD cycling deck that wants to be casting reunions, oath of jaces, and the likes anyway, it's a great card to add.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:35 am 
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I agree with Callmeaggit on Drake Haven. I originally mentioned it in my post until I saw it had already been dismissed by the OP.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:16 am 
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2/2 flyers for 1 mana is good but getting there takes time. If you dont cast it in the first couple of turns, a 2/2 flyer for 1 mana wont do much good. The Meta is filled with fast, big powered creatures. Vehicles is still a thing. It would be hard for Drake Haven to compete under a Mill shell.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:15 am 
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Wher I'm at now:

3 x Fatal Push
4 x Fog
2 x Pull from Tomorrow
3 x Compelling Deterrence
4 x Commencement of Festivities
3 x Oath of Jace
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Fevered Visions
4 x Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 x Languish
2 x Yahenni's Expertise
2 x Archfiend of Ifnir
3 x Pore Over the Pages
1 x Noxious Gearhulk

6 x Island
7 x Swamp
1 x Mountain
1 x Forest
1 x Sunken Hollow
2 x X Cinder Glade
1 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Evolving Wilds


I agree that Compelling Deterrence is just a bounce without zombies but I think it's the bounce we want. We want to bounce creatures AND enchantments if necessary. Bouncing Oath of Jace is cool.

Fevered Visions speeds up the game and draws us cards. The Fog and Festivities keep us alive.

Idk about the mana base though, maybe could be better.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:25 am 
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If you go the Fog route, you can let go of all your creatures and just focus on Cycle, Draw and some counter spells. My Fog Mill does. as long as you have a Fog in hand, none of the critters can touch you. Only creature you can add is the Torrential Gearhulk to recycle a fog. Be ready to counter direct damage and other effects like it.

Also, no need to include a Languish only creature that can hurt you is that life loss zombie. But i havent encountered a deck like that in ladder.


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