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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:05 pm 
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I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a legitimate build in these colors. Nissa, Steward of Elements just feels like she belongs in a deck like this. Problem is...it's slow...like RELY slow. I've been getting stomped on, especially by Orzhov Zombies (or any deck that goes wide). I need any and all help with this deck.

2x Oath of Nissa

2x Deathcap Cultivator
2x Sylvan Advocate (synergizes with the copious amounts of land creatures we can make)
4x Druid of the Cowl

2x Pull from Tomorrow
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Weaver of Currents

2x Champion of Rhonas
2x Bounty of the Luxa
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths

1x Verdurous Gearhulk
3x Arborback Stomper (I thought the lifegain would help against early aggro decks??)
2x Baral's Expertise (Tempo swing if I'm falling behind)
1x Nissa, Vital Force

1x Ulvenwald Hydra
2x Gaea's Revenge
2x Elder Deep-Fiend
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Card's I've been considering/also tested with:

Displacement Wave
Tireless Tracker
Prowling Serpopard
Mouth // Feed
Glimmer of Genius
Glyph Keeper
Nissa's Renewal
Crush of Tentacles
Plated Crusher
Sandwurm Convergence

What do you think guys?? Does this deck have a place in Duels? I'm rely trying to find the perfect build for this deck. Like I said, any and all help is welcomed and appreciated.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:10 pm 
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This is what I've been running with:

2 x Heaven // Earth
2 x Walking Ballista
2 x Sylvan Advocate
1 x Duskwatch Recruiter
4 x Druid of the Cowl
3 x Weaver of Currents
1 x Rhonas the Indomitable
2 x Tireless Tracker
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
4 x Explosive Vegitation
1 x Nissa, Vital Force
2 x Monstrous Onslaught
2 x Rishkar's Expertise
2 x Gaea's Revenge
2 x Plated Crusher
2 x Sandwurm Convergence
1 x Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger

10 x Forest
6 x Island
2 x Mountain
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Wandering Fumarole


Thread for it with some others builds as well: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18516

I haven't played a ton with it on the ladder because games I did play went well and I wanted to mess with other deck ideas (distracted by other new toys).

Sandwurm Convergence is very good. Even if opp is playing with RecSages, you still get a 5/5 out of the deal at least. Puts the game out of reach quicly if unanswered. In games I've drawn it early-mid, ive never had to wait longer than T6 to cast (T5 in one). Small sample size, but it's certainly doable proven done.

In my build I wouldn't trade Rishkar's for Pull. Maybe Pull is fine for yours since you aren't packing as many hard-to-kill fatties as I am, but refilling your hand + freecasting something for 6 mana > paying 9 mana to refill your hand - discarding something.

Monstrous Onslaught is my answer to go wide strategies. Also running Heaven // Earth for that too. I've payed 0 for :x: on Heaven just to get Earth on line in a couple games.

I personally like running some ramp Instants/Sorceries. Like to have Explosive Vegetations around for matches opp is running a lot of removal for dorks. Sucks to not be able to cast your high end spells because opp keeps blowing up your dorks.

Would need to play it much more on ladder to know if my version is Right. But I think it has some Right things at least.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Counter control crushes it.
Aggro crushes it.

You beat.....midrange maybe? Sometimes? Congrats.

Simic Ramp with dorks is always going to struggle because you can't sweep or even use things like Crush without resetting yourself. Fog is about your best hope to get Sandwurm Convergence with consistency without dying and then you're throwing away a bunch of your draws just to stall.

I'd suggest Temur or Sultai Ramp, where blue is the splash actually. You need spot removal to survive.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:52 am 
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divinevert wrote:
Counter control crushes it.
Aggro crushes it.

You beat.....midrange maybe? Sometimes? Congrats.

Simic Ramp with dorks is always going to struggle because you can't sweep or even use things like Crush without resetting yourself. Fog is about your best hope to get Sandwurm Convergence with consistency without dying and then you're throwing away a bunch of your draws just to stall.

I'd suggest Temur or Sultai Ramp, where blue is the splash actually. You need spot removal to survive.

If I go Temur...would you suggest blue splash mainly for Weaver of Currents and Nissa, Steward of Elements? What red cards could I run? Radiant Flames?!!? I need help Vert you know I'm terrible at making decks :ahem:

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:14 am 
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The blue splash in Temur should be for Radiant Flames, Nissa and the aftermath of Spring//Mind mostly IMO. Maybe you want to splash one or two more cards like Altered Ego or Kiora, but these should be the main ones.
Weaver needs more commitment to Blue than you're comfortable with I think, seeing how you need Blue turn 3 for it to be any good.

Red is in for Radiant Flames, Harnessed Lightning, maybe a 1-mana removal spell in small numbers and the Aftermath of Heaven // Earth . There are some bombs you may want it for as well (Omnath, Chandra).
Similar, Sultai would run Black for Fatal Push, Languish, maybe Murder or Never // Return (or even Rags // Riches) and possible bombs like The Gitrog Monster or Sire of Stagnation.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:31 am 
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Modulo wrote:
The blue splash in Temur should be for Radiant Flames, Nissa and the aftermath of Spring//Mind mostly IMO. Maybe you want to splash one or two more cards like Altered Ego or Kiora, but these should be the main ones.
Weaver needs more commitment to Blue than you're comfortable with I think, seeing how you need Blue turn 3 for it to be any good.

Red is in for Radiant Flames, Harnessed Lightning, maybe a 1-mana removal spell in small numbers and the Aftermath of Heaven // Earth . There are some bombs you may want it for as well (Omnath, Chandra).
Similar, Sultai would run Black for Fatal Push, Languish, maybe Murder or Never // Return (or even Rags // Riches) and possible bombs like The Gitrog Monster or Sire of Stagnation.



Agree here. While the mana dork route seems the most attractive, I feel like it just doesn't line up with the current meta. Relying on mana dorks to ramp you means you likely don't want to be running sweepers, which significantly improve the matchup against aggro. The matchup against control is likely to be bad no matter what we do (since we lack stuff like Banefire, unless you want to try and go the Exquisite Firecraft+Geistblast route).

Adding Red to the list adds some extra early removal and access to Radiant Flames, Kozilek's Return, and Heaven // Earth.

Adding Black again gives you early removal and access to Languish and Yahenni's Expertise.

IMO Ramp should be ditching the mana dorks in favor of instant/sorcery/enchantment based ramp effects and should be packing as many sweepers/early removal as they can afford to run without interfering with their ramp:payoff ratios.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 am 
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So basically what you guys are saying is cut Weaver of Currents all together :D. Great, now I'm back to the drawing board!

I like the idea of Temur because red gives us access to some great bombs like Glorybringer, Chandra, Flamecaller, Arlinn Kord, and Omnath, Locus of Rage.

On the other hand, black has very good early game removal spells in Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness, Murder, Languish, and Never // Return.

You guys have given me a lot to think about. Anyone care to tinker with a Temur or Sultai build and let me know how it goes?

Also, if I'm no longer going mana dork route, I should be running Explosive Vegetation and Nissa's Renewal right?!!? And I should be replacing Druid of the Cowl with Primal Druid?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:23 pm 
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The T2 dorks are much better than T3 dorks since we don't have any T1 ramp.

I'd keep Druid of the Cowl in the deck, trying for that T3 Veggies or Champion.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Weaver of Currents is crap. I fell into that trap but she dies way too easily and you don't ever get or keep that ramping ability from her. I tried Simic hoping that I could use hexproof against control and go over the top of agro but it doesn't work.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Ello-Asty wrote:
Weaver of Currents is crap. I fell into that trap but she dies way too easily and you don't ever get or keep that ramping ability from her. I tried Simic hoping that I could use hexproof against control and go over the top of agro but it doesn't work.

That was my initial build too. I was running a bunch of hexproof threats like Glyph Keeper and Plated Crusher but it was just too slow. I think a temur midrange build might be the way to go on this. Ramping into Omnath, Locus of Rage seems pretty nice :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:00 pm 
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I haven't played any good aggro decks yet with my version. But I've played a couple games vs counter control and crushed them (only lost 1 game vs Gem running counter control, but that was partly because I got greedy and tried to cast Crusher instead of GR - playing to get lethal in my next turn - which of course ate a counterspell). Gaea's Revenge and manlands DGAF about counterspells. I don't care if they counter or kill my dorks, because I'm running hexproof manlands and GRs that bring inevitably to control matches and those go long enough to hardcast GRs without dorks assistance. if you can get a Plated Crusher down under counters, it's GG too.

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