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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:33 pm 
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All Arena players. I am sure you all have your own love / hate relationship with Arena. I mean I love it because it’s Magic, the hate part - we’ll all the rest lol. But not really. I know I don’t need to be a try hard so much, or a spike. I can have some really neat games, close too. Then you get some way out deck. I don’t mind the obvious control or less so RDW - but yes some are just ..... well god draw or freakin’ woah. Anyway at times you get nowhere fast (it seems) - at other times you just try and brew up some Jank. I have of course nowhere near a decent deck, or squandered the rares/mythics I did get like a kid in a sweetie shop.

But it’s still Magic. I know I have cards enough that can put up a half ways decent deck. It’s a reminder of the early Magic Duels days when a decent D deck like Boros could give you a decent opponent.

Of late I have gone for the staple magic formula (pardon the pun) but yes just rely on cheap fast creatures and a bit of synergy. I opened a new rare wildcard - but will try and hold onto it this time. There are decks I would love to have fully built - I have a pseudo GPG deck but it’s missing probably a quarter of the cards. Anyway parts of it can work as they are supposed to.

At the end of the day, I just want to have some half decent games and maybe at the end of the session feel my collection is growing and the possibilities opening. There have been times though where I feel drained after playing. For all the usual reasons. But when all’s said and done it is magic and why complain when it’s the beta and I get to play for free.

I had a go at an event (gold only) but crashed and burned. I’d have big issues if I was paying for real but came out feeling short changed. I appreciate better players should get the bigger rewards, but like poker, if you are just playing, but losing hand over first, as much as you might be addicted - best not to play.

Anyway yes back in, and kind of enjoying it, for now.

It’s Magic after all (no pun intended).

SD

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Glad you are back buddy :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:03 am 
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Three decks got posted and commented on. And we had some comments on the "I'm worried about the game" thread. Other than that we've had zero Arena-related discussion between Monday evening and this thread getting posted. If I'm wrong on this please feel free to post the other couple of pieces of activity we had in those ~5 days.

Between that, Reddit, and the Beta Forums I'm having a "Why am I even still playing this?" relationship with MTG: Arena.

Everyone likes Magic the Gathering. And almost everyone hates the economy or defends it by saying it's cheaper than paper. This particular topic is dwarfing all the other conversation to the point where I feel like I should start defending the game just to be the devil's advocate.

And for me a game is nothing without the online community. This community is more negative right now, at the game's inception, than Hearthstone got about the Shudderwock disaster of 2018. This is so depressing it's making me not want to play the game. <- It doesn't help that the game is also making me not want to play the game after 4 wins. I'm not one of those people who needs to get to the top of the ladder.

Edit: I haven't actually booted up Hearthstone since the week Un'goro came out so please no one call me a HS shill. That game is ****. I just pay attention for the memes.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:55 pm 
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Glad to see your back SD.

The initial grind is tough for f2p. Then you finally build your first good deck and your stuck with that one deck for ages. Eventually you make your second and third (helps if your second and third are spin-off decks that can reutilize cards you already have) and then things start to get better.
I was at the point were I had just finished my second deck and I got curious about P2win, if the difference was all that big. It is. I bought Gems, openned a sh1tload of packs, got a ton of WCs and suddenly, I have the freedom to build just about any deck I want. I'm blowing WCs on rare lands and am nowhere near running out.
So my current gaming experience has shifted completely after spending money. It's the exact opposing of when I was grinding f2p, so I guess that proves it, the game is completely p2w.
Also, gems have let me play more draft (which is also a great way to get more cards) which also breaks the monotony of the grind and is a change of pace from facing RDW and :u::w: control every other game.
Saving up all week to blow 5000 gold for a f2p player is really Harsh (I know because I did it and went 0-3 on my first run). But with gems, you can always recover some and keep playing until you run out.
My advice is, focus on 1 deck. Make sure that it's a deck you enjoy and that it can hold its own against the meta and slowly put it together until its complete. It helps if that deck has cards that can be used in a variety of other decks for when you feel like getting creative later. But it'll really have to be later, because at the current aquisition rate, it'll take a month or 2 to finish that first deck.
As to buying gems, I wouldn't encourages anyone to do so yet, but it can really change the whole gaming experience, for a Price...

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 pm 
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I spent more money than ^^^ did and I would advise against it unless you plan to spend it on Drafts and view that as an entertainment cost.

It's pay to win as **** but also the kind where you are going to have to keep paying every so often or your "investment" is gone.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Seeing any of this as an investment is retarded. Just calculate your cost to play preferably as a per hour cost and then you know what’s what

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Seeing any of this as an investment is retarded. Just calculate your cost to play preferably as a per hour cost and then you know what’s what


Most MTG players view their collection as an actual investment they can sell off at a later date. That's going to be one of the major barriers this game is going to have to overcome.

Furthermore, you ARE investing in your ability to enjoy the game. This isn't something you buy once and you're done. It's more akin to a very expensive subscription model.

As for cost per hour, I'd say it's about the equivalent of going on a losing streak at a casino.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:34 am 
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Love - When draft is available
Hate - When draft isn't available, and I'm stuck with constructed

Hadn't played much constructed before to be honest - some dabbling during original Innistrad, then a break till Aether Revolt. Never really realized how degenerate it is when full playsets are available and everyone plays the same 2-3 decks. Though I doubt we'll ever see it, I hope we'll get some "duels-style" rarity restricted events in the future, if only to promote diversity. Doesn't help that the wildcard and win based reward systems do everything conceivably possible to discourage diversity and promote meta decks.

I'm miraculously riding a 64% win rate in draft right now. Not looking forward to the inevitable spiral downward, but at least it's nice not seeing the same cards every game.


Last edited by DCG-MTG on Mon May 21, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:44 am 
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Seeing any of this as an investment is retarded. Just calculate your cost to play preferably as a per hour cost and then you know what’s what

That's the way I calculate the price of this game, and in this dark times, there is a short list of things you can enjoy for that cost per hour you get with Duels or ARENA.

On the other hand, I think you could sale your collection for sure... I mean it is just linked to an email account and you can change that, so If I wanted to sale a collection with 100 hours of playing and $100 that gotta worth something.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:08 am 
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Absolutely. Just don’t think of it as an investment. It won’t ever gain value

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:10 am 
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Magic as an investment?
silly rabbit...

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:33 am 
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Casino losing streak costs me about 40 per visit. There’s no way Arena would cost that. Given the hours we play and fixed cost (not variable), I think it wouldn’t be too bad. I think you’re right Cucho

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:00 am 
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I like the game. I have no problem with the $/entertainment value.

My love/hate is mainly with the way Magic is constructed with Land. Screw/flooding is a tale as old as time, but still is frustrating when it happens. I will say that with the new multi purpose lands, it does alleviate the problem quite a bit. I am now running Mono white with 27 land. But of those 27, 12 have uses outside of just mana, and 8 tend to come into play most games, so that only leaves 15-19 "dead cards" in any matchup, which is perfectly fine.

As far as the stale meta.....I do see a lot of RDW and UW, but I also see a fair amount of Scarab, Saprolings, Merfolk, Dinos, Gift, Mono Green, White Tokens, Vampires, Mono Black and Mono U fliers. And I have seen pretty different variations on most of those decks, even RDW. Seems like a pretty normal meta to me.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:53 am 
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Yeah it is getting better. I decided to try out orzhov knights in a qc, went 4-3 and only faced 1 Rdw (that crushed me with a brutal draw) and 1 Uw control that I crushed.
Screw and flood were ever present though.
I did lose to a Mono-white Procession deck after getting him to 1 life, he just drew everything he needed and I drew Land. Highlight of that game was when he decided to attack with all of his tokens and I settled him (he got all his Land into play).

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Haven_pt wrote:
I did lose to a Mono-white Procession deck after getting him to 1 life, he just drew everything he needed and I drew Land. Highlight of that game was when he decided to attack with all of his tokens and I settled him (he got all his Land into play).


Hey, was that me? That is what I was playing and I admit I did make that mistake once last week (I knew better, but was so far ahead that I was being stupid). I think I won that game anyway, but I should have lost for my stupidity.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Yes can definitely testify to the fact that having a more than decent initial deck and sticking to it makes a difference. It’s landing though on that right deck. For sure my initial Merefolk build can do the job, but it went through longish spells of just not faring well against the decks I was up against. Likewise my Rakdos build seemed to have good creatures / removal to do a half decent Job. But again in stalled. I am not expecting any deck to fare better than average against even the competition I am facing but if it’s not faring better than 50:50 it’s not the right deck. For now a build based on WB vampires that because it has good synergy and sports a decent amount of rares it does a decent job and at least is losing to unfavourable matchups or the odd time mana issues.

I don’t know if anybody knows for sure but it would be good to believe that given the future planned updates (Kaladesh) will not involve a wipe - when the game reaches its final release build is it safe to assume existing beta players should expect to have their collection (and more to the point their investment) retained or otherwise compensated in kind.

It’s maybe expecting too much as any new players will starts with whatever they deem the start set is - and / or packs. But there will be players that have already crafted their Tier 1 builds and tested. Are we really saying they would go back to basics?

There is that and the fact they do really need to announce the launch platforms. It should be a no-brainer your Wizards DCI number you signed the beta with (and registration for new users) manages your Arena identity from a collection and rewards perspective. I play of course on PC as that is the current platform but keep hearing Mac is coming too which is my prime laptop of choice. I am not expecting any mobile iteration period! A miss maybe for WOTC but someone would already have been thinking to port to mobile in advance. Some may remember the interface issues with DOTP 2015 that started the path to full deck building but the interface (navigation primarily around modes, deck selection etc) left a lot to be desired.

I still do play for the set 3 packs across 15 wins that I can complete in one sitting though I am spreading it out a bit with the current playing sessions. I still have not bought into the quest - specific deck thing so I know I am self limiting the gold I could earn for free plus due to the aforementioned lack of clarity of what happens in the transition to actual launch I am pretty loathe to invest too heavily in what is ‘throw away’ investment of both time and money. As of now Arena affords me the opportunity to enjoy on my terms and not necessarily wizards at this point in time. I am not saying that will change in future but I would need to know for sure what the actual plans are. Like a lot of us playing we have invested before in time (and money) in good faith but in particular with Magic Duels were let down {meaning WOTC should really have given us HOD in Duels as a swan song and proper announcement, not end it in the way they did}.

SD

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Check Out my You Tube Channel - Cube Draft and Random versus for AER. NGA iOS KOH matches. iOS Trials of the Elder Dragon tournament videos.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:31 pm 
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The main issue, as I see it: they’ve already burned the trust they might have had with the duels crowd.

I’m surprised anyone would expect things like: ‘maybe they won’t wipe, etc...’

That seems impossible to me, and I’d consider it lucky if they didn’t, rather than unlucky if they did.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:46 pm 
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I expect a wipe.

My plan is like my plan has been for other Betas I have been in. I am using this time to figure out what I want to work for when the game launches. I have wasted several wildcards on deck ideas that fizzled, so not that I have one that I think I want to stick with, I will be more focused in my wildcard usage when we hit live. More info would be welcome though.

Personally though, I am just having fun with it now.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:04 pm 
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When the game goes to open beta everything will get wiped. But, they've anouncement that they'll return to us all gems bought with real money.
Starting from scratch will suck big time. So, I guess I actually bought about 2 months worth of my life and avoided a lot of frustration.
What I'd still like to know is what will happen with rotation. I mean investing in kaladesh now is ok, because its gonna get wiped anyway, but what about after? Why buy packs or use WCs on cards that will be excluded in a couple of months?
Anyway, I guess there's still a real chance that Arena may flop (especially if they don't fix the economy), but it would probably take a cataclysm. Seems like the real deal to me, Arena is better game, more complete and no stainless!
I loved Duels, but we did not deserve to be treated like we were in the end. WotC probably doesn't deserve our confidence, but hell... It's Magic, it's fun, it's adictive and we're hooked.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:08 pm 
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There definitely will be a wipe, they have said the last planned wipe is as they go into open beta.
In any case I don't get the worry about impending wipes like its beta and we know there will be one so might as well enjoy it and then start nice and fresh when it does come.
I have been in since day 1 (though i was asleep when there was that original limited test) and each time we wiped it was just nice to start fresh and feel the meta from the beginning with new cards and economy.

Anyway my current love/hate is mostly directed at my stupid but lovely Izzet Wizard deck that often just loves to give me mostly islands and choking me on red even though it is built to lean toward red. I suppose it can be bias and maybe its just one of those decks that need the mana to go perfectly to work because it needs to cast everything in a timely manner or die, just that today I was stuck with the island situation for a good few games in a row before it started working.

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