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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
Can you name another burn spell that's as efficient as this one, and legal in the current standard? Don't mention Lightning Strike, because that's already a 4-of in any deck that runs this card. Also, if they are within burn range and you can cast this card, chances are you can cast any spell you draw because this spell costs 3 mana and your curve likely tops at 3 (or 4 mana at most).


Sword-Point Diplomacy

Of course, not red, but more potential damage.

Look, I don't hate the card like some other do, but I am guessing that once we get a larger card pool, it is an early cut in decks that run it now. You need the right deck for this card, and I see a lot of decks running this that shouldn't. IMO, you should be able to get your opponent to 12 or so before you even consider casting this spell. This is like the Flame of Keld spell in some ways. It is for when your deck can get 90% there on it's own, and needs something to get that last little bit to finish the game because you have stalled.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Well, Risk Factor might not be the best card in the pool, but it's absolutely awesome in Full-aggro Red. Replenishes hand and gives you the reach you need or burns face. AND it has flashback.


Did you guys play keld red? that is the card the deck really missed, replenishes, ditches mountains. Too bad we lost Soul-Scar and Khenra, but you could easily bring your opponent to low life by turn 3-4 and THEN Risk factor could either deal 4 damage or replenish your hand. AND then you can jump-start it. Flame-Kin also gives you the much needed mana for the spell and with several spells in a turn it goes back to 3/3 or 4/4


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Rough draft for a aggro-Risk red deck which needs cuts, but is good with risk factor.
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 7c0ae6432a

4 Daring Buccaneer (RIX) 98
4 Rigging Runner (XLN) 157
4 Ghitu Lavarunner (DAR) 127
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115
4 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Lightning Mare (M19) 151
4 Ghitu Chronicler (DAR) 125
2 The Flame of Keld (DAR) 123
4 Lightning Strike (M19) 152
4 Goblin Chainwhirler (DAR) 129
4 Risk Factor (GRN) 113
4 Wizard's Lightning (DAR) 152
19 Mountain (M19) 273

Cuts depend if we go more the creature-pirate way or more wizards-burn way. Ghitu chronicler is abad card, but get the lightning bolt or shock back fromthe grave for another burn and is a wizard. I’d probably go wizards due to all the green-big butt and go-wide decks.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Auunj wrote:
Well, Risk Factor might not be the best card in the pool, but it's absolutely awesome in Full-aggro Red. Replenishes hand and gives you the reach you need or burns face. AND it has flashback.


Did you guys play keld red? that is the card the deck really missed, replenishes, ditches mountains. Too bad we lost Soul-Scar and Khenra, but you could easily bring your opponent to low life by turn 3-4 and THEN Risk factor could either deal 4 damage or replenish your hand. AND then you can jump-start it. Flame-Kin also gives you the much needed mana for the spell and with several spells in a turn it goes back to 3/3 or 4/4


If you did not play the FLame of Keld you can't see the edge of Risk Factor... at first glance Flame of Keld is Trash... but that card delivered a T1 deck last season... Risk Factor might have to find its way still but there are decent builds with it already

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Auunj wrote:
Rough draft for a aggro-Risk red deck which needs cuts, but is good with risk factor.
https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 7c0ae6432a

4 Daring Buccaneer (RIX) 98
4 Rigging Runner (XLN) 157
4 Ghitu Lavarunner (DAR) 127
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115
4 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Lightning Mare (M19) 151
4 Ghitu Chronicler (DAR) 125
2 The Flame of Keld (DAR) 123
4 Lightning Strike (M19) 152
4 Goblin Chainwhirler (DAR) 129
4 Risk Factor (GRN) 113
4 Wizard's Lightning (DAR) 152
19 Mountain (M19) 273

Cuts depend if we go more the creature-pirate way or more wizards-burn way. Ghitu chronicler is abad card, but get the lightning bolt or shock back fromthe grave for another burn and is a wizard. I’d probably go wizards due to all the green-big butt and go-wide decks.

I built this one its 5-0 so far

20 Mountain (RIX) 195
4 Risk Factor (GRN) 113
4 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109
4 Goblin Banneret (GRN) 102
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Lightning Strike (M19) 152
4 Goblin Chainwhirler (DAR) 129
4 Ghitu Lavarunner (DAR) 127
4 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Wizard's Lightning (DAR) 152
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:11 am 
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[quote="[url=https://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?p=621218#p621218]

20 Mountain (RIX) 195
4 Risk Factor (GRN) 113
4 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109
4 Goblin Banneret (GRN) 102
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Lightning Strike (M19) 152
4 Goblin Chainwhirler (DAR) 129
4 Ghitu Lavarunner (DAR) 127
4 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Wizard's Lightning (DAR) 152
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115[/quote]

Almost identical to the frenzy deck I am running. Only difference is 4 Frenzy instead of the Risks and 4 Lightning Mares instead of the Warboss. Yours is probably better, but i have more fun with Frenzy :P

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:27 am 
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You know what? I actually think that risk factor helps the deck go slightly higher on the curve.
I've been playing goblin siege commander and the extra lands I get from the draw 3 helps me get to a point were I can just blow up goblins for lethal.
I'm also running some Phoenixes just because...
23 land ATM.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:35 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
You know what? I actually think that risk factor helps the deck go slightly higher on the curve.
I've been playing goblin siege commander and the extra lands I get from the draw 3 helps me get to a point were I can just blow up goblins for lethal.
I'm also running some Phoenixes just because...
23 land ATM.

I think so too, Jump Start will provide a bit of mana flood insurance, maybe there is a deck running 25 lands + Steam Kin+demanding dragons + Phoenix and Risk Factor
Steam Kin is insanely good!!
I'm loving that guy!!

Barney get your ass in the beta!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:49 am 
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Wintervoid wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Can you name another burn spell that's as efficient as this one, and legal in the current standard? Don't mention Lightning Strike, because that's already a 4-of in any deck that runs this card. Also, if they are within burn range and you can cast this card, chances are you can cast any spell you draw because this spell costs 3 mana and your curve likely tops at 3 (or 4 mana at most).


Sword-Point Diplomacy

Of course, not red, but more potential damage.

Look, I don't hate the card like some other do, but I am guessing that once we get a larger card pool, it is an early cut in decks that run it now. You need the right deck for this card, and I see a lot of decks running this that shouldn't. IMO, you should be able to get your opponent to 12 or so before you even consider casting this spell. This is like the Flame of Keld spell in some ways. It is for when your deck can get 90% there on it's own, and needs something to get that last little bit to finish the game because you have stalled.


It's not the same though. You aren't drawing 3 cards with Sword-Point Diplomacy - you are drawing cards the opponent can beat. For example if you have a Shock in your top 3 cards, you'll probably get that instead of 3 damage from the Sword-Point Diplomacy. If you have a land, then you're definitely getting that. Or maybe you have some small creature when the ground is already gummed up - you'll definitely get that too. With Risk Factor, even if you draw these lands and small creatures, you still threaten 4 damage from the flashback.

Having played against it a bit more, I think it's strong enough that it can compete with other burn spells they're likely to introduce. Like, if Wizards introduces Lightning Bolt then yeah this card is out of the deck at once, but it's a genuine contender vs. a 2-mana-deal-3-to-player type of card (e.g. Skullcrack if lifegain decks aren't common), as well as 3-mana-deal-5 cards. Other burn spells Wizards might introduce (these deal-damage-to-player spells have a high chance of unbalancing Modern or Legacy burn decks after all) they might introduce things like 3-mana-deal-4-to-any-target, viz. Exquisite Firecraft, which I'll grant this card is probably weaker than.

Haven_pt wrote:
You know what? I actually think that risk factor helps the deck go slightly higher on the curve.
I've been playing goblin siege commander and the extra lands I get from the draw 3 helps me get to a point were I can just blow up goblins for lethal.
I'm also running some Phoenixes just because...
23 land ATM.

I think so too, Jump Start will provide a bit of mana flood insurance, maybe there is a deck running 25 lands + Steam Kin+demanding dragons + Phoenix and Risk Factor
Steam Kin is insanely good!!
I'm loving that guy!!

Barney get your ass in the beta!


I'm skeptical of bringing up the curve that high. Remember Risk Factor is only good if you're trying to burn your opponent out. If you're playing with Siege Gang Commander and Demanding Dragon, you're not really trying to burn your opponent out, you're trying to win by curving out into strong creatures.

Maybe run Phoenix (because it is so good + it's a 4-power flyer + it's only 4 mana) but going up to 5-mana CMC is a bridge too far for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:54 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
You know what? I actually think that risk factor helps the deck go slightly higher on the curve.
I've been playing goblin siege commander and the extra lands I get from the draw 3 helps me get to a point were I can just blow up goblins for lethal.
I'm also running some Phoenixes just because...
23 land ATM.

I think so too, Jump Start will provide a bit of mana flood insurance, maybe there is a deck running 25 lands + Steam Kin+demanding dragons + Phoenix and Risk Factor
Steam Kin is insanely good!!
I'm loving that guy!!

Barney get your ass in the beta!


I'm skeptical of bringing up the curve that high. Remember Risk Factor is only good if you're trying to burn your opponent out. If you're playing with Siege Gang Commander and Demanding Dragon, you're not really trying to burn your opponent out, you're trying to win by curving out into strong creatures.

Maybe run Phoenix (because it is so good + it's a 4-power flyer + it's only 4 mana) but going up to 5-mana CMC is a bridge too far for me.

You might be right but Steam Kin is a force to be recon and he could make that kind of decks work... the card is nuts.... NUTS I tell you!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:42 am 
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I believe, that risk factor requires extreme aggro so that your opponent either takes 4 to the face and faces lethal or lets you draw 3 cards and risks that you draw more burn.

Once I get the WCs I'll definitelly will try mono red aggroburn.

And I think that with the mentorgoblins pump spells are better than Risk Factor, as you need to attack with creatures to have any profit. With a lot of green decks and go wide it's kinda hard to push damage through.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:48 am 
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The more I think about it, the more I see it as a lava axe that can bring some minor headaches to counterspells decks and can be cast in two smaller payments.
Once you factor that the creatures you draw with this will most likely be groundstalled because you took a turn off to cast this and thay you will draw probably 2-3 points of direct damage in the right deck on average the ratios come close to axe, with the benefit of getting some chump blockers to see an extra card from the top.

Not sure if it is playable or not since burn played shrine of burning rage that was probably also annoying for your curve.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Weird how some cards get a lot of attention...

When is this card good? Is it when you are developing your board (probably not), when you are at parity (possibly, but I think no), when you are ahead (can it win you the game, or put the game out of reach? I guess that depends mostly on the opponent), when you are behind (seems really bad)...

Aren’t there better cards for people to be talking about?

Also, if people want to talk about a card, please tell us when/how/why it won you the game. A list of red cards that would be good with or without risk factor doesn’t really tell the story that well.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Is Risk Factor better than Shock? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Lightning Strike? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Wizard's Lightning? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Arclight Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Rekindling Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 1-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 2-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Chainwhirler? No.

etc. etc. etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Also, and not for nothing, but our mana for Izzet and Boros is good. There isn't some requirement stopping us from splashing other colors other than some weird perverse desire to stay monored.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:06 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Is Risk Factor better than Shock? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Lightning Strike? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Wizard's Lightning? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Arclight Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Rekindling Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 1-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 2-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Chainwhirler? No.

etc. etc. etc.

Is it better than Flame of Keld?
I think it is, Flame is an enchantment and most times forced you to play spells inefficiently to cast it... coz you got to vomit your hand in a rush for maximum value... hardly ever casting it before T4-T5, Risk factor is an Instant... in a deck where you run 12 burn spells at instant speed, so a fair number of times you pass your turn, hold your burn to remove blockers or burn face at your opponent end phase... in this scenario Risk Factor is way better than Flame of Keld coz you can hold your more versatile burns spells and effectively reduce your opponent's life... twice
Flame of Keld most times ended the game the turn after you resolved it so 40-50% of the times it just drew you 2 cards or your opponent killed all your creatures coz he knew what was going to happen 2 turns in advance... Again Risk Factor is an Instant
2 flame of Keld in your hand is awful, 2 Risk factor in your hand can go a long way... at least your opponent started the game at 16 life or you started the game with 3 more cards... both scenarios are amazing and well worth 3 mana...
In a world with Steam Kin 3cmc in a mono-red deck is not that big of a deal, that little guy is one hell of a 2 drop

divinevert wrote:
Also, and not for nothing, but our mana for Izzet and Boros is good. There isn't some requirement stopping us from splashing other colors other than some weird perverse desire to stay monored.

Steam Kin and Chainwhirler are your payoffs for staying monored...but you got a good point there, and Boris is for sure a great Aggro pile

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:29 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Is Risk Factor better than Shock? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Lightning Strike? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Wizard's Lightning? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Arclight Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Rekindling Phoenix? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 1-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than your red 2-drop threats? No.
Is Risk Factor better than Chainwhirler? No.

etc. etc. etc.

Is it better than Flame of Keld?
I think it is, Flame is an enchantment and most times forced you to play spells inefficiently to cast it... coz you got to vomit your hand in a rush for maximum value... hardly ever you casting it before T4-T5, Risk factor is an Instant... in a deck where you run 12 burn spells at instant speed, so a fair number of times you pass your turn, hold your burn to remove blockers or burn face at your opponent end phase... in this scenario Risk Factor is way better than Flame of Keld coz you can hold your more versatile burns spells and effectively reduce your opponent's life... twice
Flame of Keld most times ended the game the turn after you resolved it so 40-50% of the times it just drew you 2 cards or your opponent killed all your creatures coz he knew what was going to happen 2 turns in advance... Again Risk Factor is an Instant
2 flame of Keld in your hand is awful, 2 Risk factor in your hand can go a long way... at least your opponent started the game at 16 life or you started the game with 3 more cards... both scenarios are amazing and well worth 3 mana...
In a world with Steam Kin 3cmc in a mono-red deck is not that big of a deal, that little guy is one hell of a 2 drop

divinevert wrote:
Also, and not for nothing, but our mana for Izzet and Boros is good. There isn't some requirement stopping us from splashing other colors other than some weird perverse desire to stay monored.

Steam Kin and Chainwhirler are your payoffs for staying monored...but you got a good point there, and Boris is for sure a great Aggro pile


With 8 duals and maybe 2 plains, you could splash white for Integrity//Intervention and Tajic and be no worse off on Steam-Kin and only marginally worse on Chainwhirler.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Also, Aurelia she is insane!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Also, Aurelia she is insane!


I agree, but that pulls the curve alittle higher. Yes, if you can fit in 4-drops, Aurelia is redonk.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:57 pm 
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There actually is a 5-0 dedk in mtgo league running 4x Risk Factor and 4x Keld. The plethora of decks is amazing ;-)


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