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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:28 pm 
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You may have seen me debate over which shade of Golgari might be the best. Here's me theorymonning on some of the lists:

Crats
4 x Llanowar Elves
4 x Stitcher's Supplier

4 x Glowspore Shaman
3 x Merfolk Branchwalker
1 x Kraul Harpooner
3 x Assassin's Trophy

4 x Midnight Reaper
1 x Isareth the Awakener
1 x Plaguecrafter
3 x Jadelight Ranger
1 x Journey to Eternity

1 x Ravenous Chupacabra
3 x Vraska, Golgari Queen
3 x Gruesome Menagerie
1 x Izoni, Thousand-Eyed

10 x Forest
5 x Swamp
4 x Overgrown Tomb
4 x Woodland Cemetery

Sideboard:
4 x Duress
2 x Arguel's Blood Fast
1 x Reclamation Sage
1 x Price of Fame
2 x Vicious Offering
3 x Nullhide Ferox
2 x Doom Whisperer


This deck contains a lot of possible tech choices; some of which may be amazing and some of which may be absolutely horrendous; but this is the type of deck that lends itself to this toolbox-like approach.

Beatdown
4 x Pelt Collector

4 x Glowspore Shaman
3 x Merfolk Branchwalker
1 x Kraul Harpooner
3 x Assassin's Trophy

2 x Charnel Troll
1 x Isareth the Awakener
4 x Jadelight Ranger

4 x Nullhide Ferox
2 x Vraska, Golgari Queen

3 x Doom Whisperer
1 x Underrealm Lich

2 x Carnage Tyrant
1 x Vraska, Relic Seeker

10 x Forest
5 x Swamp
4 x Overgrown Tomb
4 x Woodland Cemetery
1 x Field of Ruin
1 x Memorial to Folly

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:10 am 
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I like the idea of Crats, if I remember correctly there was a time when we played around Spider Spawning.

Two questions though:

Are the amounts of cards limited by what you have unlocked? I wouldn't understand the distribution of 3-drops otherwise.
Do you think there is enough payoff for getting your yard filled? 1 Isareth and 1 Izoni are not much. There's also the Menagerie, but I don't see that doing much except giving you some slight card advantage by bringing back a 2- and a 3-drop. The 1-drops appear to be irrelevant at that point in the game. Also, does the card whiff when there is no 1-drop to fetch?

Remember that I'm just the apprentice here, so feel free to correct that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:44 am 
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I think there is one T1 Mid range approach with Stitcher,Pelt Collector, Izzoni, new Vraska, Assasins Trophy, the new black sweeper, Chupacabras, Underrealm Lich and Doom whisperer.... but that's a loooot of WCs.... and I went the other direction...

Charnel Troll looked kind of meh to me during the spoiler season but I have faced that guy a couple of times and he can go big rather fast he might end up being a big part of the deck... too bad he doesn't play well with Izzoni.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
Are the amounts of cards limited by what you have unlocked? I wouldn't understand the distribution of 3-drops otherwise.
Do you think there is enough payoff for getting your yard filled? 1 Isareth and 1 Izoni are not much. There's also the Menagerie, but I don't see that doing much except giving you some slight card advantage by bringing back a 2- and a 3-drop. The 1-drops appear to be irrelevant at that point in the game. Also, does the card whiff when there is no 1-drop to fetch?


The 3-drops are not limited by what I have thus far; it's a total theorymon.
4 Midnight Reaper and 3 Jadelight Ranger will give you card advantage. Only 1 Isareth because drawing 2 is not ideal (also she probably is not all THAT great). 1 Plaguecrafter as a sac outlet that can either be recurred or make sure your own Stitcher's Suppliers die.

Menagerie is basically the whole point of the deck. You're getting a 3-for-1 with tempo AND value. Stitcher's Supplier is never a bad card to recur (more cards in the yard), Llanowar Elves is still a dork that can be sacrificed for value off of Vraska, Plaguecrafter or Izoni. The 2- and 3-drops to recur are either milling more or there for value.

It's very possible that this deck is too focused on milling itself and needs more payoff. Charnel Troll comes to mind, as does Memorial to Folly and the black Tutor (that one would be a 1-of though).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:59 pm 
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This makes me want to do a Golgari Crats deck based around Reaper, Menagerie, Charnel Troll, and Desecrated Tomb. I think you could do some pretty legitimately crazy things if you can stock and recur your graveyard, even without Undergrowth as your payoff.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:15 pm 
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TBH that deck might be better in Sultai or Dimir. Thinking Narcomoeba or Blood Operative with Surveil stuff. Needs a good 2 though.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
TBH that deck might be better in Sultai or Dimir. Thinking Narcomoeba or Blood Operative with Surveil stuff. Needs a good 2 though.


Between Charnel Troll eating from your graveyard and the Glowspore feeding it, I don't think Dimir is better. Especially when you add Llanowars to potentially power out the tomb turn 2. I could try Muldrotha, but I think at that point, I'm just trying to do too much. Golgari has the right amount of fat and recursion for me to believe it's the better enabler than some surveil strategy.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:24 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Sol77_bla wrote:
Are the amounts of cards limited by what you have unlocked? I wouldn't understand the distribution of 3-drops otherwise.
Do you think there is enough payoff for getting your yard filled? 1 Isareth and 1 Izoni are not much. There's also the Menagerie, but I don't see that doing much except giving you some slight card advantage by bringing back a 2- and a 3-drop. The 1-drops appear to be irrelevant at that point in the game. Also, does the card whiff when there is no 1-drop to fetch?


The 3-drops are not limited by what I have thus far; it's a total theorymon.
4 Midnight Reaper and 3 Jadelight Ranger will give you card advantage. Only 1 Isareth because drawing 2 is not ideal (also she probably is not all THAT great). 1 Plaguecrafter as a sac outlet that can either be recurred or make sure your own Stitcher's Suppliers die.

Menagerie is basically the whole point of the deck. You're getting a 3-for-1 with tempo AND value. Stitcher's Supplier is never a bad card to recur (more cards in the yard), Llanowar Elves is still a dork that can be sacrificed for value off of Vraska, Plaguecrafter or Izoni. The 2- and 3-drops to recur are either milling more or there for value.

It's very possible that this deck is too focused on milling itself and needs more payoff. Charnel Troll comes to mind, as does Memorial to Folly and the black Tutor (that one would be a 1-of though).

The bolded part is pretty much my TL;DR. That's also why I don't consider the self-mill of your Stitcher's Supplier beneficial in the case of a Menagerie. Self-mill alone is no value.

I like divinevert's version with Desecrated Tomb and Reassembling Skeleton. You might want some Plaguecrafters to recur it. Nantuko Husk isn't available, but how about our old friend from Dominaria, Thallid Omnivore? Not sure if Slimefoot, the Stowaway belongs, but he certainly has some value.

What I don't see is the explore Merfolk. They are nice limited value cards imo, but in Constructed, you can do better.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:13 am 
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Saw a 5-0 list from modo that looks really nice.

2 Vraska, Golgari Queen
4 Doom Whisperer
4 Druid of the Cowl
4 Elvish Rejuvenator
3 Glowspore Shaman
2 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Find // Finality
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 The Eldest Reborn
9 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery


More ramp, 4 big flying tramplers that also dump your library into your graveyard and Izoni which is a monster when well fed. I think it's probably a mistake to play any midrange deck that goes properly black without playing Doom Whisperer, the card is very strong.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:30 am 
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This is similar to what I've crafted and it loses badly to any go-wide strategies and to Boros Mentor.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Ritual of Soot looks like it might be a needed card if boros is everywhere, which then devalues early drops in the deck. Shame there isn't some cheap spell based ramp, I guess the 3 mana enchant that ramps and gains life is still around though it's a bit slow. The best dimir list I've seen seem to run 3-4 rituals and a lot of removal, maybe you just need to pre-board vs aggro same as last meta. Going to be a little annoyed if standard is an aggro fest again, been years now.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:25 am 
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I should probably give an update on my stance regarding the Golgari decks.

First off, I ruled out the Crats approach. It struck me as just too slow to keep pace with the rather fast Arena meta. Instead, I'm building towards a list much closer to the Beatdown list I put up earlier this thread; with a few notable changes:

1) Four Nullhide Ferox is definitely too many; we need to play some spells in the deck and there's another 4-drop we want to play. I'm cutting the number here down to 2.
2) The 6-drops I listed are basically worse versions of 4-drops that are in the deck already. Tyrant remains a sideboard option against some Control lists (preferably non-white ones, not sure if he actually comes in against UW), Vraska won't make the cut.
3) I don't know how Ravenous Chupacabra completely elapsed my mind when building the deck; he's probably too good to not run at least 2, maybe 3 copies.
4) Both 5-drops are very strong, but you can't run too many 5s. The nice part about Underrealm Lich is how he evades a bunch of removal while giving you card selection. That said, 4/3 is a LOT worse than 6/6 Flying.
Another card that is great in this slot (and probably a frontrunner for sideboard slots) is Vivien Reid.
5) Vraska's Contempt is still an insanely important removal spell. Both the exile effect and the lifegain are very relevant at times, as is not giving the opponent a free land. I think the deck wants a split between these two removal spells with maybe a Cast Down thrown in for good measure.
6) I'm not sure whether the deck wants mainboard sweepers, but there are go-wide matchups you cannot win without them. Golden Demise is the sweeper that kills less of your stuff and is cheaper, but Ritual of Soot might be actually needed in some matchups.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Why would you need to play spells?:D

I'm testing demon of the catastrophes in my GB Stomp. I run 4x Chupacabra anyway, so there's fodder enough and a 6/6 flyer gets the job done, pumps pelt and is good power for ghalta.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:39 am 
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Do any of you play Golgari with success these days? I see that guild a lot on the opposing side but it's quite unimpressive.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 am 
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I'm playing GB Stomp and it usually stomps. But BG Undergrowth/Explore give me fits with their recurring of Plaguecrafter or Chupacabra. Really a pain in the asss.


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