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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:56 am 
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Haven, i'm looking to perfect my playing of your deck so i hope it's okay to talk about some of the cards. I think i'm 10-0 with it right now, it's very much my type of deck and my favourite mono-red since Pure's Furnace deck from origins which was INSANE.


Gee Wizz! I feel awfully proud. :D
That's alot of questions... So here goes.
Priority for T1 drops are Bomat, then Glory Chaser, then Neonate? I'm tempted to put Glory Chaser first but I'm not sure...it sounds like you prioritize Glory Chaser, which probably makes sense.

I usually play Glory Chaser first. If you have Bomat too, imo that's the right play because they both hit on T2. If you have Titan's Strength always try and use it early for fixing. Get that 3rd land or just to know how to play with what's coming next. You really want to get in as much damage as possible while they're still playing tap-lands.
So its usually Glory Chaser, Bomat, Neonate, but it depends if I'm on the play or on the draw, is they have a 1 drop or have Red mana open (for Fiery Impulse/Bombardment). Depends on if you want to draw removal, because everyone tries to zap a renouned Glory chaser or a Bomat with 2 or 3 exiled cards. Why draw removal? To keep your premium guys like Garrison alive longer.
What did Speed Racer get replaced by?

I need help understand the Grubs. If I have a Hellion out, i should prioritize the energy going towards the Hellion and not the counter, correct? That's what I've been doing.

Irc, speed Racer got swapped by the Grubs or more Fiery tempers.
Okay so the Grubs... Well, my objective with a 2 drop is to pressure a player running T2 Abbot. That's my make or break level. Grubs can do that, on T3 they either go 3/2 (and they won't trade for sure, so its easy damage) or if you drop a Lathnu, stay 2/1. Believe me, next to a Lathnu Grubs are invisible, so you really want Lathnu to hang around another turn. If Lathnu eats removal? Fantastic, Grubs can go 4/3 now... And that means they can poo-poo on Abbot until he gets to 6 land (which the game plan doesn't intended to do).

No need to comment on this but i'm amazed as a red mage, you were skeptical of the Hellion. I knew it would be insane immediately in a mono-red deck with removal. Like you said it's double firecraft.

I was imagining a scenario where it would just be chumped by Tokens or Primal Druid or something. Primal Druid isn't popular, that makes Lathnu better. And I also forgot that most token generators only go active much later on in a game. I also underestimated the surprise haste effect and that most decks don't really run expendable 1 or 2 drops like Blisterpod, or the now deceased sylvan ranger.
What can I say? I was skeptical... But I only had to play a Hellion once to be convinced it was good. Actually makes Firecraft seem somehow worse...

I really don't like how Bomat, Scourge and Battlements don't get along with Copter but that's ok. It's a first-world problem in many ways.

Don't be afraid to let the Copter sit there, while you attack with hasty guys, unless you have a hand full of Fiery tempers, that is.
Why? They'll either save their removal for the Copter and take some damage or waste their removal on the hasty guys and next turn the Copter goes to town with a non-hasty guy as pilot.

I also really don't get Aether Hub here. We're not playing enough lands to take this risk. We have 15 non-tap red sources in a deck that 100% needs to come out on curve. I dont' think we can afford a slot for cute little Aether Hub. I'll try it, but if it doesn't do what it's meant to do in ONCE in ten games, I'm going to yell at you for taking it out


Well, The deck really only uses energy in pairs and I found that harnessed lightning sometimes left me me 1 useless energy left over. So I thought, a random Hub could mean an extra hit with a Lathnu... Also means you can occasionally hit for 4 with a harnessed lightning.
The only times the Hub screwed me over was when I was cardless and let the auto-tap take care of mana, because it likes to save the Hub for last instead of using it for colorless in a mono deck that only runs it for the extra energy. Otherwise, the impact is minimal, just be careful.
Also, against randoms there's the wtf effect. Because a Hub usually means a splash of some kind, so your opponent can be left wondering what the hell did he throw into a mono-red deck to justify a hub?

I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be explaining my deck this in-depth while playing it in the showdown, but what the hell? What can they do about it? The game plan is to do stuff while they're still playing tap-lands and don't have all that many options...
And only us Red mages visit the mono-red thread anyway...

Enjoy! Any other questions, just ask.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:12 pm 
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hey sorry about that, i didn't know you were playing it in the Showdown. I'm certainly rooting for you even more now :)

One thing that happens a bunch when playing this deck that gives me a warm feeling in my heart (you will recognize this) is when Hellion eats a MASSIVE removal spell when he was going to die next turn anyway. in which case, it's like you turned a removal spell into a 4 lifegain spell, which we both know is AWFUL. So i'm always happy when that happened. Lately my Hellion has been Imprisoned on the Moon which is FINE by me.

thanks for the notes. I'm still unconvinced on Aether Hub but I'll try it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:29 pm 
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hey sorry about that, i didn't know you were playing it in the Showdown. I'm certainly rooting for you even more now :)

One thing that happens a bunch when playing this deck that gives me a warm feeling in my heart (you will recognize this) is when Hellion eats a MASSIVE removal spell when he was going to die next turn anyway. in which case, it's like you turned a removal spell into a 4 lifegain spell, which we both know is AWFUL. So i'm always happy when that happened. Lately my Hellion has been Imprisoned on the Moon which is FINE by me.

thanks for the notes. I'm still unconvinced on Aether Hub but I'll try it.


Who are you playing against that points removal at the hellion? Image

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:08 pm 
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...opponents ? They must think I'm playing an energy deck? Maybe that Aether Hub is throwing them.

12-0 now Haven. I'm going to play this all night cuz of this stupid energy quest

Can someone tell me how to earn towards this community quest?? I'm clueless

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:05 pm 
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OK first run finished 16-1 wow.
I lost to WGB elves, no sweepers

But I kept a two lander with 5 spells that cost three or more!! I'm an idiot. Make sure you don't do that in the Steam showdown, k? Gotta be careful with the two landers apparently. Five landers too

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:53 pm 
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OK first run finished 16-1 wow.
I lost to WGB elves, no sweepers

But I kept a two lander with 5 spells that cost three or more!! I'm an idiot. Make sure you don't do that in the Steam showdown, k? Gotta be careful with the two landers apparently. Five landers too


I usually keep 2 landers, but mostly when I have a 1 drop and Titan's Strength to fix. Can be tricky though. 5 landers are also risky, depends on what other 2 cards you have. If its a 1 and 2 drop, maybe keep it... Also, once you get to 4 land and have a Neonate in play, keep a land in hand to discard in case it eats removal or you need to chump.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:45 am 
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When I'm holding up a Temper and neonate is on the table, I need to seriously consider using the temper. One mana for three damage anywhere and a draw is crazy value. I'm so glad you're not playing enchantments to make these decisions difficult.

Speaking of which, my next run was a disaster. 1-1, losing to angelic destiny. I can't do anything about that cuz I typically tap out

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:05 pm 
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Generally, I don't sac the neonates while they can still do damage. You see, when you attack with a bunch of creatures, using 2 to block a 1/1 is usually a bad move so that point of damage gets through, which can help get you to burn range. I mostly only sac neonates when they're gonna die anyway, need to look for burn or for emergency tempers. I use them quite differently to vampires, that usually sac them as soon as they give some value, I think they're awesome attackers
Of course, having Instant speed removal in hand can make you think twice about tapping out... Depends what your playing against.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:16 pm 
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it's more when i seriously feel the need to dig. i feel like I don't have enough pressure on the table and in my hand to finish this off, so I feel like I should sac the Neonate, burn something or someone, and get that extra card RIGHT NOW to try and close this faster.

If I'm holding up a Titan's Strength I think you're right, i should keep neonate alive. But if it's just one consistent damage per turn, that clock is too slow and I need to find something faster. (i'm not talking early game here usually, btw)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Hi, I'm relatively new so I'm not sure if this is the right thread since I'm not posting a new deck exactly, but I didn't see a generic "Deck Help" thread. I've basically been running a variant of OriginMD's RDW, adjusted mainly for AI grinding.

1-drop

3x Goblin Glory Chaser
4x Goblin Arsonist
4x Fiery Impulse
4x Titan's Strength

2-drop

3x Ember Hauler
4x Mage-Ring Bully
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
3x Call of the Full Moon
4x Infectious Bloodlust
2x Inferno Fist(the burn has been a lot more relevant than I would have thought)
4x Twin Bolt

3-drop

2x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Act of Treason
1x Hijack

4-drop

1x Avaricious Dragon

19x Mountains

I'm shameless about conceding matches(and not concerned about my ranking in PvP), so I find this a little faster since I can win with two lands, and can predict a loss or a win a bit earlier with the extra burn. The main issue is that the Abbots are kind of dead cards now since they're really more of a turn 3 or 4 play, which with the reduced land count, means I'm usually casting out my last burn spells/effects or the Dragon(and if I cast them earlier, they tend exile cards I can't cast). I'm basically looking for some 2-drop replacement creature for them(I know the deck is 61 cards, but I'd still rather replace than cut, the extra fuel keeps from flooding too much).


I've unlocked all of Origins, am working on Kaladesh(which you may have noticed with the Hijack that can snatch a Smuggler's Copter or an Aethersphere Harvester) and have a splash of a few others.

Red and Colorless 1 or 2-drop creatures outside of Origins


As I said I'm working on Kaladesh, so if there are any cards I should try out when I get them, or if you have any other suggestions let me know.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Hellions are very worth it, even if they only hit twice. They're like Firecraft x2.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:48 am 
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I have a soft spot in my heart for mono-red. Just to show that I haven't forgotten this ach-type I put together a revamped El-loco build (who needs a late-game?):

El Loco Extreme

Creature(22)
2 x Bomat Courier
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Furyblade Vampire
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3 x Ravenous Bloodseeker
2 x Bloodmad Vampire
2 x Reckless Racer
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Instant(10)
2 x Lightning Axe
4 x Shock
4 x Fiery Temper

Sorcery(3)
3 x Distemper of the Blood

Enchantment(3)
3 x Senseless Rage

Artifact(3)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Key to the City

Land(19)
16 x Mountain
3 x Looming Spires

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 048ce5c48b

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

The curve tops out at 3 and goes heavily based on madness value, with plenty of Discard/looting outlets. I pushed the Land count down to 19 which should be enough to keep feeding you with threats most of the game. It is very aggressive and looks to win T5-T7.
I only played one game with it so far, but it stomped an odd vehicle deck that didn't do much but drop vehicles, by T5. I actually played slower to hold up removal for a Harvester that ended up being totally unnecessary...

For anyone, that like me, enjoys the philosofy of fire.
Enjoy!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:13 am 
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if i put senseless rage on Copter, it falls off once the turn ends, right?

is 12 madness cards enough? You have 19 discard outlets.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:33 am 
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if i put senseless rage on Copter, it falls off once the turn ends, right?

is 12 madness cards enough? You have 19 discard outlets.


Yeah, it comes off like water.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:46 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
El Loco Extreme

Creature(22)
2 x Bomat Courier
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Furyblade Vampire
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3 x Ravenous Bloodseeker
2 x Bloodmad Vampire
2 x Reckless Racer
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Instant(10)
2 x Lightning Axe
4 x Shock
4 x Fiery Temper

Sorcery(3)
3 x Distemper of the Blood

Enchantment(3)
3 x Senseless Rage

Artifact(3)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Key to the City

Land(19)
16 x Mountain
3 x Looming Spires


So I'm not the only one who went mono-red with Madness? Nice :)

Will post my list later when I'm home; for now I'll post my differences to yours that I remember off the top of my head:

-More lands. I'm running 19 Mountains + 4 Spires; maybe the 23rd land is not as important but it hasn't hurt me yet either.

-No pump spells. I found Distemper to be pretty bad and Senseless Rage, while okay, did not strike my fancy either. Instead, I'm running the usual suspects - full Bloodmad Vampires, Incorrigible Youths, Avacyn's Judgment.

-Slightly different - read: bigger - creature base. I decided against running Glory-Chasers and Kari Zev since I'm not running pump spells; and Ravenous Bloodseeker as a Madness outlet is not great (I am running Furyblades though, they fit the deck very nicely). My current inclusions are Abbot of Keral Keep and Bedlam Reveler.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:38 am 
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if i put senseless rage on Copter, it falls off once the turn ends, right?

is 12 madness cards enough? You have 19 discard outlets.


I dunno, build the deck and play it and you tell me. ;)
Anyway, any Land above 4 is probably Discard fodder.

I may add more bloodmads, because I want to keep the Creature count high.

Modulo wrote:
Ravenous Bloodseeker as a Madness outlet is not great

I like the Bloodseeker because of Instant speed Discard and eot Bloodmad Vampire drops.

For this deck's curve 23 or even 22 land is overkill imo, I could go to 20 though...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:57 am 
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Modulo wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
El Loco Extreme

Creature(22)
2 x Bomat Courier
4 x Insolent Neonate
3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Furyblade Vampire
2 x Kari Zev, Skyship Raider
3 x Ravenous Bloodseeker
2 x Bloodmad Vampire
2 x Reckless Racer
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

Instant(10)
2 x Lightning Axe
4 x Shock
4 x Fiery Temper

Sorcery(3)
3 x Distemper of the Blood

Enchantment(3)
3 x Senseless Rage

Artifact(3)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
1 x Key to the City

Land(19)
16 x Mountain
3 x Looming Spires


So I'm not the only one who went mono-red with Madness? Nice :)

Will post my list later when I'm home; for now I'll post my differences to yours that I remember off the top of my head:

-More lands. I'm running 19 Mountains + 4 Spires; maybe the 23rd land is not as important but it hasn't hurt me yet either.

-No pump spells. I found Distemper to be pretty bad and Senseless Rage, while okay, did not strike my fancy either. Instead, I'm running the usual suspects - full Bloodmad Vampires, Incorrigible Youths, Avacyn's Judgment.

-Slightly different - read: bigger - creature base. I decided against running Glory-Chasers and Kari Zev since I'm not running pump spells; and Ravenous Bloodseeker as a Madness outlet is not great (I am running Furyblades though, they fit the deck very nicely). My current inclusions are Abbot of Keral Keep and Bedlam Reveler.


You definitely don't need 23 lands in a deck that BARELY runs any 3 drops. You'll run out of gas trying to up the land count above 20.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:28 pm 
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I was so impressed by key to the city, that I cut a shock.
Cut a reckless racer and added a mountain.
Cut a furyblade and added another bloodmad vampire.

Been playing a bunch (10 game?), I can only remember losing once or twice. One was a control/midrange orzovish type thing that made me discard my axe with a thought-knot seer and then top-decked kalitas when we were both in top-decking mode. The other loss I can't remember, maybe grixis tower control. Been facing a bunch of tower decks and they usually can't keep up with the pace.

Damn, the deck is explosive!

Key to the city is like drawing 2 cards per turn, while making some dude unblockable.

With copter, key and the reckless guy, you go through your deck like a locomotive.

Deck is pretty kick-ass, although some of the wins are slightly unconvincing. You have to gamble quite a bit and sometimes it pays off, other times its a blow-out. Fun either way.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:40 pm 
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I promised I'd post my list:

Creatures (20)
2 x Bomat Courier
4 x Insolent Neonate
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
3 x Furyblade Vampire
4 x Bloodmad Vampire
3 x Incorrigible Youths
2 x Bedlam Reveler

Instant(11)
3 x Lightning Axe
4 x Shock
4 x Fiery Temper

Sorcery(2)
2 x Avacyn's Judgment

Artifact(4)
2 x Smuggler's Copter
2 x Key to the City

Land(23)
19 x Mountain
4 x Looming Spires


The curve goes up a bit higher than Haven's deck which is why I feel fine running 23 lands (which are also good discard fodder); I could see cutting one Looming Spires though (though I wouldn't know what for; maybe one of the Chandras).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:45 pm 
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-1 lightning axe
-1 land
+2 Lathnu Hellion?

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